Ponting's career - in three parts
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Ponting's career - in three parts
This match is Ponting's 150th test. It got me thinking about his career and my gut feel on when he first was genuinely great, where his peak might have been and where he is now.
In my mind, Ponting's career making innings was his 100* against South Africa at Newlands in 2002. It was Pontings 53rd test, four and a half years into his career (and Smith's debut). Australia chased down a very big 4th innings target of 334 losing 6 wickets in the process. It was a massively skillful and assured innings in the context of the match which won the series for Aust.
His peak, I think, was at the Adelaide Oval test four years ago. He had demolished the England attack in the first test with 196 and 60* and then scored 142 under pressure chasing England's massive total, having been famously dropped by the King of Spain. He finished that match with a quick 49 and Aust chased an amazing win. It was also the match where his averaged topped 60 very briefly which, for a player with over 9000 test runs, was unprecedented. If he had quit after that match, he may well be talked about as the second greatest batsman ever. As it was it was almost like that match was his personal masterpiece which, coupled with the brilliance of the win, was something he could never hope to top. As it was he didn't score another Test ton in over a year. That was Ponting's 107th test - almost exactly double the number he had played after Newlands and it took him a further 4 and half years to get there.
And now he is up to his 150th four years later and probably wondering where is next ton is coming from. On top of that, he is getting out softly with run outs and lame hook shots. He is a sad shadow if what he was in his peak.
So splitting his career into 3:
First 53 tests (to Newlands 02): 3196 runs at 43.78 with 9 tons
Next 54 tests (to Adelaide 06): 6043 runs at an astonishing 74.60 with 26 tons
Next 43 tests (to Adelaide 10): 3081 runs at 42.21 with 6 tons
So, a AT World XI candidate over a third of his career but no better than Paul Collingwood for the remainder. It will be interesting to take a snap shot when he is in his 159th test some time next year where his career could literally be split into 3 periods by tests and time.
In my mind, Ponting's career making innings was his 100* against South Africa at Newlands in 2002. It was Pontings 53rd test, four and a half years into his career (and Smith's debut). Australia chased down a very big 4th innings target of 334 losing 6 wickets in the process. It was a massively skillful and assured innings in the context of the match which won the series for Aust.
His peak, I think, was at the Adelaide Oval test four years ago. He had demolished the England attack in the first test with 196 and 60* and then scored 142 under pressure chasing England's massive total, having been famously dropped by the King of Spain. He finished that match with a quick 49 and Aust chased an amazing win. It was also the match where his averaged topped 60 very briefly which, for a player with over 9000 test runs, was unprecedented. If he had quit after that match, he may well be talked about as the second greatest batsman ever. As it was it was almost like that match was his personal masterpiece which, coupled with the brilliance of the win, was something he could never hope to top. As it was he didn't score another Test ton in over a year. That was Ponting's 107th test - almost exactly double the number he had played after Newlands and it took him a further 4 and half years to get there.
And now he is up to his 150th four years later and probably wondering where is next ton is coming from. On top of that, he is getting out softly with run outs and lame hook shots. He is a sad shadow if what he was in his peak.
So splitting his career into 3:
First 53 tests (to Newlands 02): 3196 runs at 43.78 with 9 tons
Next 54 tests (to Adelaide 06): 6043 runs at an astonishing 74.60 with 26 tons
Next 43 tests (to Adelaide 10): 3081 runs at 42.21 with 6 tons
So, a AT World XI candidate over a third of his career but no better than Paul Collingwood for the remainder. It will be interesting to take a snap shot when he is in his 159th test some time next year where his career could literally be split into 3 periods by tests and time.
Last edited by JGK on Mon 06 Dec 2010, 09:55; edited 1 time in total
JGK- Number of posts : 41790
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
From 2002-2007 he was great, no question. But being great for five years out of 15 years doesn't make an all time great player, imo. He's gone from being Australia's best since Bradman to probably not as good as Greg Chappell, and doubtful as to whether he's better than Steve Waugh and Allan Border.
I think the pressure of captaincy post Mcgrath and Warne has affected his batting, along with the inevitable decline with age. Since Mcgrath and warne retired, he's averaged 42 with the bat. That's 41 tests.
Right now it's hard to imagine he'll continue after the Sydney test.
I think the pressure of captaincy post Mcgrath and Warne has affected his batting, along with the inevitable decline with age. Since Mcgrath and warne retired, he's averaged 42 with the bat. That's 41 tests.
Right now it's hard to imagine he'll continue after the Sydney test.
Henry- Number of posts : 32891
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
Hehehe, excellent summary, JGK. There's no doubt that Punter at his peak was the world's best at the time, but to be an ATG you have to maintain it over basically your whole career, ala DGB, AB, GSC. He has not done that, and at the moment he is almost a walking wicket.JGK wrote:So, a AT World XI candidate over a third of his career but no better than Paul Collingwood for the remainder. It will be interesting to take a snap shot when he is in his 159th test some time next year where his career could literally be split into 3 periods by tests and time.
skully- Number of posts : 105794
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
Until I was looking up the stats on this, I hadn't realised that Ponting didn't score a ton for 13 months after the last Adelaide test and that he has only scored 6 since then in 4 years.
Haddin has better stats than that.
Haddin has better stats than that.
JGK- Number of posts : 41790
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Aye. Larry lunge-at-the-ball-early has even been falling regularly to his strength - the pull and the hook.
skully- Number of posts : 105794
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His recent stats would look awful if that bookie/player agent Majeed hadn't told Amir to drop Ponting first ball at Hobart at the start of the year.
Henry- Number of posts : 32891
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Re: Ponting's career - in three parts
At this stage it is looking increasingly difficult for Ponting to play any test cricket beyond Ashes especially if Aus goes onto lose it.
Probably the first ever Aussie captain to lose it thrice?
Probably the first ever Aussie captain to lose it thrice?
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SG wrote:At this stage it is looking increasingly difficult for Ponting to play any test cricket beyond Ashes especially if Aus goes onto lose it.
Probably the first ever Aussie captain to lose it thrice?
That would be hilarious if true.
Don't have the inclination to check it out, but I have a feeling Dravid's career is almost following the same path.
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I hope Dravid has the sense to call it a day before it becomes embarrassing and awkward for India. I'd like to see him go out on his own terms. He deserves to.
Henry- Number of posts : 32891
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Well, he technically is not losing the Ashes as England currently hold them, but your point is valid, SG. As a batsman he had his peerless moments. As a captain, he's a clown.SG wrote:At this stage it is looking increasingly difficult for Ponting to play any test cricket beyond Ashes especially if Aus goes onto lose it.
Probably the first ever Aussie captain to lose it thrice?
skully- Number of posts : 105794
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Will Drunky's ego allow him to do the same? I think he might say "this is all just too hard and I have quite a few million in the bank courtesy of CA" at the end of this season.Henry wrote:I hope Dravid has the sense to call it a day before it becomes embarrassing and awkward for India. I'd like to see him go out on his own terms. He deserves to.
skully- Number of posts : 105794
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IIRC, some Aus captain called Armstrong lost it twice in '20s. Ponting equalled that 'record' last time in Eng.
Whats the 'record' for Eng captain, Trev?
Whats the 'record' for Eng captain, Trev?
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He should have left the captaincy 5 years ago. Would have drastically improved his batting stats in the last few years.
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IMHO thats what probably separates him from Tendulkar with whom (rather surpsingly) he hasn't been compared that often.skully wrote:Will Drunky's ego allow him to do the same? I think he might say "this is all just too hardHenry wrote:I hope Dravid has the sense to call it a day before it becomes embarrassing and awkward for India. I'd like to see him go out on his own terms. He deserves to.
Tendulkar too looked like all at sea just 3-4 years back with all those career threatening injuries and string of low scores against all opposition. But he probably wasn't as egoistic as Ponting probably is. He cut down on a lot of strokes which were responsible for his downfall, played only a sporadic no. of ODIs and shunned int'l T20 altogether. Rather unsurprisingly, Ponting didn't do anything of those.
PS: Now see Ponting scoring a match winning double at WACA.
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Ponting sees cutting down on the risky shots as a sign of weakness. He wont admit it, but I bet he's thinking seriously about his future in the game at the moment.
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So T >> P?SG wrote:IMHO thats what probably separates him from Tendulkar with whom (rather surpsingly) he hasn't been compared that often.skully wrote:Will Drunky's ego allow him to do the same? I think he might say "this is all just too hardHenry wrote:I hope Dravid has the sense to call it a day before it becomes embarrassing and awkward for India. I'd like to see him go out on his own terms. He deserves to.
Tendulkar too looked like all at sea just 3-4 years back with all those career threatening injuries and string of low scores against all opposition. But he probably wasn't as egoistic as Ponting probably is. He cut down on a lot of strokes which were responsible for his downfall, played only a sporadic no. of ODIs and shunned int'l T20 altogether. Rather unsurprisingly, Ponting didn't do anything of those.
PS: Now see Ponting scoring a match winning double at WACA.
skully- Number of posts : 105794
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Over a period longer than Bradman's career, he averaged 74. If that had been 54 or even 64 it would have been a lot easier to disregard.
I wonder if his slow decline can be traced back at all to the breaking up of the Langer/Hayden partnership?
I wonder if his slow decline can be traced back at all to the breaking up of the Langer/Hayden partnership?
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But the Katich/Watson partnership has gotten Aus of to some useful starts of late. Ponting is often coming to the crease at 80/1.
I think his decline is more to do with having to work harder as a captain now that Warne and Mcgrath have retired, meaning he has less time to focus on his own game. Also, he's getting older, and the eyes and reflexes aren't quite what they were.
I think his decline is more to do with having to work harder as a captain now that Warne and Mcgrath have retired, meaning he has less time to focus on his own game. Also, he's getting older, and the eyes and reflexes aren't quite what they were.
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JGK wrote:So splitting his career into 3:
First 53 tests (to Newlands 02): 3196 runs at 43.78 with 9 tons
Next 54 tests (to Adelaide 06): 6043 runs at an astonishing 74.60 with 26 tons
Next 43 tests (to Adelaide 10): 3081 runs at 42.21 with 6 tons
almost like a super-vaughan
that middle third is crazy. i wonder whats the best 50 consecutive tests record for a batsman (barring bradman of course)
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Mohammad Yousuf had a pretty amazing run from 2004-2007. Sanga since 2005 is averaging around 70, I think.
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SG wrote:IMHO thats what probably separates him from Tendulkar with whom (rather surpsingly) he hasn't been compared that often.skully wrote:Will Drunky's ego allow him to do the same? I think he might say "this is all just too hardHenry wrote:I hope Dravid has the sense to call it a day before it becomes embarrassing and awkward for India. I'd like to see him go out on his own terms. He deserves to.
Except Tendulkar got sacked as captain.
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Which may yet happen to Ponting, although the lack of an obvious alternative will keep the necktie mob away for the moment.
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Yep.skully wrote:So T >> P?SG wrote:IMHO thats what probably separates him from Tendulkar with whom (rather surpsingly) he hasn't been compared that often.skully wrote:Will Drunky's ego allow him to do the same? I think he might say "this is all just too hardHenry wrote:I hope Dravid has the sense to call it a day before it becomes embarrassing and awkward for India. I'd like to see him go out on his own terms. He deserves to.
Tendulkar too looked like all at sea just 3-4 years back with all those career threatening injuries and string of low scores against all opposition. But he probably wasn't as egoistic as Ponting probably is. He cut down on a lot of strokes which were responsible for his downfall, played only a sporadic no. of ODIs and shunned int'l T20 altogether. Rather unsurprisingly, Ponting didn't do anything of those.
PS: Now see Ponting scoring a match winning double at WACA.
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Both are probably on same keel as far as leadership nous is concerned.taipan wrote:SG wrote:IMHO thats what probably separates him from Tendulkar with whom (rather surpsingly) he hasn't been compared that often.skully wrote:Will Drunky's ego allow him to do the same? I think he might say "this is all just too hardHenry wrote:I hope Dravid has the sense to call it a day before it becomes embarrassing and awkward for India. I'd like to see him go out on his own terms. He deserves to.
Except Tendulkar got sacked as captain.
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SG wrote:Both are probably on same keel as far as leadership nous is concerned.taipan wrote:SG wrote:IMHO thats what probably separates him from Tendulkar with whom (rather surpsingly) he hasn't been compared that often.skully wrote:Will Drunky's ego allow him to do the same? I think he might say "this is all just too hardHenry wrote:I hope Dravid has the sense to call it a day before it becomes embarrassing and awkward for India. I'd like to see him go out on his own terms. He deserves to.
Except Tendulkar got sacked as captain.
But at Ponting did the job without losing form.
Tendulkar got sacked because his form went to crap. Obviously not mentally tough enough.
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