England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

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England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by skully on Tue 27 Jun 2017, 00:20

Sides?
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by PeterCS on Tue 27 Jun 2017, 00:31

Chips and carrots.
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by taipan on Tue 27 Jun 2017, 07:07

Should be the proverbial walk for England.
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by Red on Tue 27 Jun 2017, 09:30

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-south-africa-2017/content/story/1106145.html

Looks a very inexperienced squad.

Cook certainly deserved to go.
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by skully on Tue 27 Jun 2017, 10:35

I'm gutted that the Smutman doesn't get a go. Cool
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by Henry on Tue 27 Jun 2017, 10:44

At this stage it looks like Hameed will be left out. Poor chap can't buy a run. He'll be back, though....

I think the likely England team will be-

Cook
Jennings
Root (c)
Moeen
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler +
Rashid
Broad
Wood
Anderson
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by lardbucket on Tue 27 Jun 2017, 14:46

Red wrote:http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-south-africa-2017/content/story/1106145.html

Looks a very inexperienced squad.

Cook certainly deserved to go.

I think you can expect to be told that Duminy has only been selected over him for quota reasons.

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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by taipan on Tue 27 Jun 2017, 14:53

Not from me. Duminy is there for quota reasons but that has nothing to do with the Cook decision.
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by lardbucket on Tue 27 Jun 2017, 20:52

Only half tongue in cheek. I think Cook had an extended run that was not justified by his (residual) ability; yet it's not that long ago that you were loudly proclaiming that we'd be pleased to have him in place of either Warner or Renshaw.

If he struggled through his last Australian tour and more recently v Boult and Southee in NZ, and he sure did, he'd have struggled v Anderson, Wood, and Broad. South Africa is moving on now, albeit belatedly. Whoever they bring in to open could hardly be worse. Not even Duminy ...

More charitably, maybe he's one of those chosen for his country only when well past his best. His bio and FC stats seem to suggest this.

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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by taipan on Wed 28 Jun 2017, 04:24

lardbucket wrote:Only half tongue in cheek. I think Cook had an extended run that was not justified by his (residual) ability; yet it's not that long ago that you were loudly proclaiming that we'd be pleased to have him in place of either Warner or Renshaw.

If he struggled through his last Australian tour and more recently v Boult and Southee in NZ, and he sure did, he'd have struggled v Anderson, Wood, and Broad.  South Africa is moving on now, albeit belatedly.  Whoever they bring in to open could hardly be worse.  Not even Duminy ...

More charitably, maybe he's one of those chosen for his country only when well past his best.  His bio and FC stats seem to suggest this.

Actually we were discussing a composite team from that series and I said either of the SA openers in place of the other Aussie whose name I cannot remember. Anyway his form has dropped off severely and the dropping is deserved. Personally I hope the selectors will have the balls to pick Markram but they will again go for the veteran for the short term fix.
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by Red on Wed 28 Jun 2017, 10:01

They might start with Kuhn, but move on to Markram when the series is lost.l
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by Red on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 13:56

It's raining again.
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by Henry on Sat 01 Jul 2017, 01:23

Surely Liam Dawson isn't now England's number one spinner? It's rumoured he'll be picked for Lord's.

The theory that County pitches don't allow English spinners to prosper is being blown out of the water by Simon Harmer this season, as it was by Jeetan Patel before him.
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by PeterCS on Sun 02 Jul 2017, 00:19

Dawson AND Ballance.

Hardly New Dawn.

Jennings more predictably in, with Hameed benighted.

And Roland-Jones. Well okay. Lord's and all. Not sure he's a fearsome proposition, but if he plays, he should "know his way around".
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by Henry on Sun 02 Jul 2017, 00:22

We need to start picking payers who have the tools to do well in Australia. Balance, Roland Jones, and Dawson will likely be pulverised in Aus. It's a short sighted squad, imo.
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by beamer on Sun 02 Jul 2017, 11:58

They might give the Australian scab XI a contest I suppose, if the real thing doesn't show up...

As usual, county stats versus intangibles/potential is proving a difficult trade-off for the selectors. If Moeen remains our first spinner though, why are they looking for another spin bowling all-rounder rather than developing who they see as the best spinner? We're overrun with all-rounders, which is a good thing in itself but they're going too far that way and not picking enough specialists.

The Yarps are similarly trying to paper over a few cracks. Should be a good competitive series, as it nearly always is between these two (and I don't think we've beaten them over here since 1998 have we?)

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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by vilkrang on Sun 02 Jul 2017, 12:22

taipan wrote:Should be the proverbial walk for England.
When was the last time England beat South Africa in England? I can't recall it happening this century.

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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by Red on Sun 02 Jul 2017, 12:26

vilkrang wrote:
taipan wrote:Should be the proverbial walk for England.
When was the last time England beat South Africa in England? I can't recall it happening this century.

It hasn't, but Proteas clearly in transition with key retirements, injuries and defections to England.

Still no word on whether du Plessis will make Lord's either.
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by taipan on Sun 02 Jul 2017, 12:30

vilkrang wrote:
taipan wrote:Should be the proverbial walk for England.
When was the last time England beat South Africa in England? I can't recall it happening this century.

Since the last tour we have lost Smith, AB, Kallis, Boucher and Steyn. All probables for an ATG SA team. In addition Amla, Philander and Morkel are past their best.
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by beamer on Sun 02 Jul 2017, 12:39

England have big holes in the top order and an ageing, fragile seam attack. May be more of a Clash of the Shite 'Uns than the battle for number 1 it's been in the not too distant past.

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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by Red on Sun 02 Jul 2017, 12:56

beamer wrote:England have big holes in the top order and an ageing, fragile seam attack. May be more of a Clash of the Shite 'Uns than the battle for number 1 it's been in the not too distant past.

Well let's hope it's competitive for we neutrals.
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by Henry on Sun 02 Jul 2017, 13:59

This is the same (assuming du Plessis plays) South African team that beat Australia in Australia just 7 months back. I actually rate them as favourites to win this series.

Sure, their batting is a bit iffy these days (but so is England's and then some) but any team that has Philander, Rabada, and Morne Morkel as their attack is going to be favourites to win most series.
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by vilkrang on Sun 02 Jul 2017, 14:09

Henry wrote:This is the same (assuming du Plessis plays) South African team that beat Australia in Australia just 7 months back. I actually rate them as favourites to win this series.

Sure, their batting is a bit iffy these days (but so is England's and then some) but any team that has Philander, Rabada, and Morne Morkel as their attack is going to be favourites to win most series.
Indeed.It's certainly going to be far from easy for England and I'd be shocked if it ended up being a comfortable victory.

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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by taipan on Sun 02 Jul 2017, 14:19

Henry wrote:This is the same (assuming du Plessis plays) South African team that beat Australia in Australia just 7 months back. I actually rate them as favourites to win this series.

Sure, their batting is a bit iffy these days (but so is England's and then some) but any team that has Philander, Rabada, and Morne Morkel as their attack is going to be favourites to win most series.

Except for Cook and Abbott?
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

Post by Red on Sun 02 Jul 2017, 14:39

Abbott is a loss. If Faf doesn't play, he leaves a leadership void.
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Re: England v South Africa, 1st Test, Lord's, 6-10 July, 2017

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