England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

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England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by Basil on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 19:16

No change for England I would have thought.

South Africa have a problem at the top of their order - Kuhn does not look up to the required standard. Bavuma to open?
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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by taipan on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 19:54

Kuhn was destined to be a failure as was the bizarre idea of playing Duminy at 4 and then moving QDK into 4.

Markram should have opened from game 1. Faf has to have the balls to go to 4 with Bavuma at 5. QdK should still be at 7 but at least 6 is a move in the right direction.

If it wasn't all so predictable.
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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by beamer on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 21:17

Still a few questions about Jennings, despite his streaky 48 in the second innings. If he's not the man for Australia then they have to be ruthless sooner rather than later, as the West Indies series might not prove that much about potential candidates.

Malan was a bit of a passenger as well but we're always going to have a "spare man" of sorts with so many all-rounders. It's either a superfluous second spinner or fifth seamer, or even a specialist batsman coming in at 8!

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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by Basil on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 21:26

Problem is that there has been no championship cricket recently for Hameed or Stoneman to play. Jennings might just keep his place by default.
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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by beamer on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 21:32

Yeah, they tend to give people one match too many rather than one too few these days. The mid-season Championship gap is counter-productive, maybe we should be playing a triangular JAMODI SODIT to coincide with that? I know, the ICCCT messed with the structure of the international season this year, maybe they will co-ordinate it better in future.

Anyway, if they rest Jimmy for one or two WI Tests, then we could have Mo at 8, Woakes at 9, Toby LeRone at 10 and Sturat at 11. That's some tail...

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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by Basil on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 21:44

If you find a place for Plunkett, we could take the field with a team all of whom have at least one first-class ton under their belt.
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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by beamer on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 21:50

Basil wrote:If you find a place for Plunkett, we could take the field with a team all of whom have at least one first-class ton under their belt.
TRJ and (of course) Broad both have one anyway... only the Burnley Lara (top score of 81) is letting the side down now.

Plunkett batted at 10 in an ODI last year, hitting the last ball for six to tie it... Rashid (10 FC centuries) was due to come in at jack!

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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by horace on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 06:18

Both Jenny and Thompson Gunner look to be locks .... maybe the Poms have a future beyond the I Ron Age.
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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by lardbucket on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 06:47

Jenny? Buster, surely.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
116 - 9- 400 - 4

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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by Basil on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 08:04

Wood is out of the squad injured - Finn takes his place. It's all rather academic though, I can't see the team being changed.
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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by PeterCS on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 09:47

Finn?

They must think Middlesex is the way to go, now ...



And yes, barring niggles, nothing surer than they will keep an unchanged team.

Despite 48 of the shakiest runs you're ever likely to see, Anthony Buckeridge's creation has to be on the brink for the WIndies & then Oz, though.

The other "Saffy" (*cough*) was the only other one who made no substantial impression at the Oval. But I suggested before, if you give them one, barring complete meltdown, you really should give them at the very least two.
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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by skully on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 09:53

The England back room boys must've been pleased with Westley's debut. Has stickability about him. Jennings still looks fragile, but the rest pick themselves.

Roland Rollerdoor (sorry, it was a Sydney radio character here in Aus back in the 80s - Roland Rollerdoor of Roland Rollerdoor's rollerdoors.) had a cracking debut.


Last edited by skully on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 09:54; edited 1 time in total
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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by PeterCS on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 09:54

"TOBLERONE(s)"!!!
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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by skully on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 09:54

Phurt.
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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by horace on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 10:47

Phurt at you both...TG... Thompson gunner


Rip Warren Zevon
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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by Red on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 13:09

Not sure some of these all-rounders will be great at both disciplines in oz though. Ali might bat okay, but not sure he will be taking hat-tricks on our tracks. Smile

SA looking disorganised, has done well to have won a test really.
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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by embee on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 13:52

dont underestimate the oz batsmen's abilities to get out to ordinary spin bowling

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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by beamer on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 17:27

PeterCS wrote:Finn?

They must think Middlesex is the way to go, now ...



And yes, barring niggles, nothing surer than they will keep an unchanged team.

Despite 48 of the shakiest runs you're ever likely to see, Anthony Buckeridge's creation has to be on the brink for the WIndies & then Oz, though.

The other "Saffy" (*cough*) was the only other one who made no substantial impression at the Oval. But I suggested before, if you give them one, barring complete meltdown, you really should give them at the very least two.
Yeah, though suggestions they might go for Les Dawson over the extra batsman at Old Trafford. So Malan could yet end up a one-Test wonder just due to a decision about the balance of the side.

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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by PeterCS on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 14:19

Cook & Westley go in short order (another screamer by De Kock), and England suddenly 3 down for under 100. Game certainly on.
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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by beamer on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 17:21

Again, a bunch of starts, nobody going on. We won't know what's a reasonable score until both sides have batted, but we need to get to somewhere around 350 at least I think.

Jennings probably in last chance saloon now, and Malan perhaps showing the issues that predominantly off-side players have in stepping up (see also Vince, J.) You just don't get as many balls to hit, so those sort of players tend to be tempted to play at one they shouldn't and get caught behind the wicket.

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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by Big Dog on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 23:30

260 runs in a day is pretty woeful although for the couple of hours that i watched, the saffie bowling looked to be on top.
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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by PeterCS on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 00:16

South Africa have put themselves in a better position this time, the six wickets gone being the top six in the order. We'll see if Bairstow, Mo and the tail can push on a little bit - 350 might be okay.

I wouldn't give up on Malan yet, and certainly not on Westley, though neither have knocked in a stake in terms of a highish score so far.

Jennings looks a goner, though. Kerrigan, who showed a similar collapse of technique and resolve, got only one go - to prolong this stretch would probably only terminate his international career for good.

It's a great pity that CC cricket is in abeyance. Hameed has no opportunity to show if he can finally put *that hand* behind him and turn the corner. Otherwise Stoneman. Or anyone. Well, not anyone. But not the hapless KJ.
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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by JGK on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 00:42

Looks a nicely balanced game.


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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by skully on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 01:13

Aye, even first day. But Engulund's long batting could still see a 350 total.
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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

Post by Red on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 01:51

England still in the box seat because with weather around, SA will have to push hard for a win and with their fragile batting, they are no guarantee to pile the runs on anyway.

Still SA has not done too badly this series with their depleted bowling. Philander hurt them last test and his absence is probably costly here. Abbott would have been a weapon, having seen him do so well in oz, especially with any assistance at all.

Root failed to convert again, though he got lucky again along the way. Malan and Jennings don't look up to it.
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Re: England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

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