Sri Lanka v England, 2nd Test, Kandy, 14-18 November, 2018
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horace
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taipan
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Re: Sri Lanka v England, 2nd Test, Kandy, 14-18 November, 2018
taipan wrote:Looks like going to the wire
Logical thought at the time as was my bet but not even close in a lowish scoring match at the end. Good series win where it's very tough to do so but does anyone else agree that it really isn't a very special S L team we are facing. Their 1-11 reads like a team who won't be winning that many test series i would have thought. For me England still have a weird-looking balance to the side with holes to plug and overkill from 5-9 or even 10.
whitburn- Number of posts : 379
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Re: Sri Lanka v England, 2nd Test, Kandy, 14-18 November, 2018
Just watched the 3rd day highlights. 9 England wickets fell either lbw or bowled, and tellingly all the lbws (except Rashid's) where to sweep shot attempts.
England also lost 3 wickets to the reverse sweep (2 lbw, 1 caught). I'm sure this is the 1st time 3 wickets have been lost to the reverse sweep in a Test innings.
England also lost 3 wickets to the reverse sweep (2 lbw, 1 caught). I'm sure this is the 1st time 3 wickets have been lost to the reverse sweep in a Test innings.
skully- Number of posts : 105794
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Re: Sri Lanka v England, 2nd Test, Kandy, 14-18 November, 2018
skully wrote:Just watched the 3rd day highlights. 9 England wickets fell either lbw or bowled, and tellingly all the lbws (except Rashid's) where to sweep shot attempts.
England also lost 3 wickets to the reverse sweep (2 lbw, 1 caught). I'm sure this is the 1st time 3 wickets have been lost to the reverse sweep in a Test innings.
Unless No Show was given three lives.
horace- Number of posts : 42563
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Re: Sri Lanka v England, 2nd Test, Kandy, 14-18 November, 2018
whitburn wrote:taipan wrote:Looks like going to the wire
Logical thought at the time as was my bet but not even close in a lowish scoring match at the end. Good series win where it's very tough to do so but does anyone else agree that it really isn't a very special S L team we are facing. Their 1-11 reads like a team who won't be winning that many test series i would have thought. For me England still have a weird-looking balance to the side with holes to plug and overkill from 5-9 or even 10.
Agree, this is no stellar SL team but still a good effort by England in these conditions.
Red- Number of posts : 17064
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Re: Sri Lanka v England, 2nd Test, Kandy, 14-18 November, 2018
Well, it may not have gone to the wire *right at the end* - but that was only in the few overs, the final day. Absorbingly close until the SL tail failed to wag a second time in the match.
Credit to the England set-up (all too rare saying that in the last three years) for formulating a strategy suitable for particular, steamy conditions, and sticking to it, with little tweaks as needed. Given there is a dearth of fast bowlers to the fore - not just quicks, fast I mean - to draw the logical conclusion and take on the hosts at their own strength, a variety of spin, required some .... what's the word, courage? And the sweeping policy adopted in Kandy in particular is hazardous, and hardly beautiful to behold, especially the reverse variety, but despite all the wickets conceded that way, some more ghastly than others, it did make a lot of runs too.
Moeen is a different bowler, far more confident, when he is not the lead tweaker. When it's just Rashid - and bits of Root as needed - he's not freed of multiple responsibilities, i.e. both wicket-taking and containing duties. Because though Adil can be useful in taking wickets, even the best wickets, as a true leggie, he's rarely dependable as a squeezer, a frustrator of runs. (Leach's 8-153, 57 overs, is a very good haul, but also a relief for Mo.)
Also, sticking with a winning team from the First Test may not seem particularly bold or imaginative. But when that means keeping Bairstow and Broad out when they are fit, it takes some resolve.
Not sure if England will now restore either or both of those - or try someone else - for what becomes a dead rubber, but surely should not be just a time for Buggins' turns. I hope any change, or decision not to change the team, depends on the conditions in Colombo. Rather than either hunches, or dogma.
Si Lanka performed considerably better than in the previous Test, but are clearly a team in transition/reconstruction. You have to hope their skipper returns, which should make it interesting. Chandimal is needed, both for his runs and his leadership.
Credit to the England set-up (all too rare saying that in the last three years) for formulating a strategy suitable for particular, steamy conditions, and sticking to it, with little tweaks as needed. Given there is a dearth of fast bowlers to the fore - not just quicks, fast I mean - to draw the logical conclusion and take on the hosts at their own strength, a variety of spin, required some .... what's the word, courage? And the sweeping policy adopted in Kandy in particular is hazardous, and hardly beautiful to behold, especially the reverse variety, but despite all the wickets conceded that way, some more ghastly than others, it did make a lot of runs too.
Moeen is a different bowler, far more confident, when he is not the lead tweaker. When it's just Rashid - and bits of Root as needed - he's not freed of multiple responsibilities, i.e. both wicket-taking and containing duties. Because though Adil can be useful in taking wickets, even the best wickets, as a true leggie, he's rarely dependable as a squeezer, a frustrator of runs. (Leach's 8-153, 57 overs, is a very good haul, but also a relief for Mo.)
Also, sticking with a winning team from the First Test may not seem particularly bold or imaginative. But when that means keeping Bairstow and Broad out when they are fit, it takes some resolve.
Not sure if England will now restore either or both of those - or try someone else - for what becomes a dead rubber, but surely should not be just a time for Buggins' turns. I hope any change, or decision not to change the team, depends on the conditions in Colombo. Rather than either hunches, or dogma.
Si Lanka performed considerably better than in the previous Test, but are clearly a team in transition/reconstruction. You have to hope their skipper returns, which should make it interesting. Chandimal is needed, both for his runs and his leadership.
PeterCS- Number of posts : 43743
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Re: Sri Lanka v England, 2nd Test, Kandy, 14-18 November, 2018
skully wrote:Just watched the 3rd day highlights. 9 England wickets fell either lbw or bowled, and tellingly all the lbws (except Rashid's) where to sweep shot attempts.
England also lost 3 wickets to the reverse sweep (2 lbw, 1 caught). I'm sure this is the 1st time 3 wickets have been lost to the reverse sweep in a Test innings.
They scored a hell of a lot of runs sweeping (conventional and reverse) so it was a calculated risk that paid off in the end. Foakes did show you didn't need to spend your whole innings sweeping to score runs on that pitch though so who knows what would have happened if they'd played more conventionally.
MoH- Number of posts : 652
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Re: Sri Lanka v England, 2nd Test, Kandy, 14-18 November, 2018
True enough, MoH. But to me it's totally galling to see a Test cricketer dismissed reverse sweeping. It looks cheap and amateurish. It goes against the grain of what is right when you have a bat in your hand.
To me it is, and always will be cowboy shot.
To me it is, and always will be cowboy shot.
skully- Number of posts : 105794
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Re: Sri Lanka v England, 2nd Test, Kandy, 14-18 November, 2018
MoH wrote:skully wrote:Just watched the 3rd day highlights. 9 England wickets fell either lbw or bowled, and tellingly all the lbws (except Rashid's) where to sweep shot attempts.
England also lost 3 wickets to the reverse sweep (2 lbw, 1 caught). I'm sure this is the 1st time 3 wickets have been lost to the reverse sweep in a Test innings.
They scored a hell of a lot of runs sweeping (conventional and reverse) so it was a calculated risk that paid off in the end. Foakes did show you didn't need to spend your whole innings sweeping to score runs on that pitch though so who knows what would have happened if they'd played more conventionally.
I personally don't like the reverse sweep but there is no arguing that it was very effective for England in this test. Not merely for the runs added, but for disrupting the bowlers line and possibly the field settings.
taipan- Number of posts : 48416
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Re: Sri Lanka v England, 2nd Test, Kandy, 14-18 November, 2018
Most effective against Indians then?skully wrote:True enough, MoH. But to me it's totally galling to see a Test cricketer dismissed reverse sweeping. It looks cheap and amateurish. It goes against the grain of what is right when you have a bat in your hand.
To me it is, and always will be cowboy shot.
beamer- Number of posts : 15399
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Re: Sri Lanka v England, 2nd Test, Kandy, 14-18 November, 2018
I think England deserve a lot of credit for their sweeping policy in this Test. Previous England sides have had problems with the sweep, largely because it has been used as a get-out stroke at times in the match when they're getting bogged down, and feel some urgent need to release the pressure. On this tour, there's been a general acceptance that we're not particularly good as a batting unit, and that we need to score our runs before we're routed as a team. That has seen the adapting of a positive mindset, a significant part of which is playing a seemingly excessive number of sweeps. The up-shot has been that England have scored more runs than Sri Lanka, and done so at a quicker pace. The results have been positive.
Ultimately, the shots you play to score runs will be the same shots that get you out. This has been true of all batsmen throughout history. It was a critical argument we used to have when Pietersen was in the team, when he would get out at stupid times to apparently stupid shots. My argument then was that your shots are your shots, you can no more not play them than you can cut off your own arm to stop yourself from playing them. It's instinct to play a particular delivery a particular way. England have taken that to a bolder level on this tour, but given how fragile we were in the UAE and in India, the success speaks for itself.
Foakes has gone a different way and, to his credit, he looks a very well-organised batsman indeed. He actually looks like a technically better batsman than anybody else in the side at the moment, full of a calm and an authority that promises the scoring of runs one way or another. Bairstow's injury has proven to be somewhat fortuitous for us - the likelihood of his heavy-handed, glorified hacking resulting in the same kind of success as Foakes has enjoyed would have been very low indeed. Added to the deal, we've got a superior gloveman behind the stumps.
If Bairstow gets back into the team, it's as a batsman. He'll have to bat at 3 if there's nowhere else for him.
Ultimately, the shots you play to score runs will be the same shots that get you out. This has been true of all batsmen throughout history. It was a critical argument we used to have when Pietersen was in the team, when he would get out at stupid times to apparently stupid shots. My argument then was that your shots are your shots, you can no more not play them than you can cut off your own arm to stop yourself from playing them. It's instinct to play a particular delivery a particular way. England have taken that to a bolder level on this tour, but given how fragile we were in the UAE and in India, the success speaks for itself.
Foakes has gone a different way and, to his credit, he looks a very well-organised batsman indeed. He actually looks like a technically better batsman than anybody else in the side at the moment, full of a calm and an authority that promises the scoring of runs one way or another. Bairstow's injury has proven to be somewhat fortuitous for us - the likelihood of his heavy-handed, glorified hacking resulting in the same kind of success as Foakes has enjoyed would have been very low indeed. Added to the deal, we've got a superior gloveman behind the stumps.
If Bairstow gets back into the team, it's as a batsman. He'll have to bat at 3 if there's nowhere else for him.
Chivalry Augustus- Number of posts : 4864
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Re: Sri Lanka v England, 2nd Test, Kandy, 14-18 November, 2018
There’s no way Bairstow is a Test top three batsman, unless they try him as a genuine pinch-hitting opener and tell him to pretend the ball is white. He’s averaging 30-ish over his last 20 Tests, and it’s looking increasingly like 2016 was an unrepeatable purple patch in the longer game.
If Foakes is going to keep the gloves, then Bairstow is realistically competing with Buttler and the bowling all-rounders for a place in the middle to lower order. He might get a slot if we only need 5 bowlers, but in that case it’s still a judgement call that he offers significantly more with the bat than a Moeen/Woakes/Curran.
If Foakes is going to keep the gloves, then Bairstow is realistically competing with Buttler and the bowling all-rounders for a place in the middle to lower order. He might get a slot if we only need 5 bowlers, but in that case it’s still a judgement call that he offers significantly more with the bat than a Moeen/Woakes/Curran.
beamer- Number of posts : 15399
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Re: Sri Lanka v England, 2nd Test, Kandy, 14-18 November, 2018
beamer wrote:There’s no way Bairstow is a Test top three batsman, unless they try him as a genuine pinch-hitting opener and tell him to pretend the ball is white. He’s averaging 30-ish over his last 20 Tests, and it’s looking increasingly like 2016 was an unrepeatable purple patch in the longer game.
If Foakes is going to keep the gloves, then Bairstow is realistically competing with Buttler and the bowling all-rounders for a place in the middle to lower order. He might get a slot if we only need 5 bowlers, but in that case it’s still a judgement call that he offers significantly more with the bat than a Moeen/Woakes/Curran.
Neither Moeen nor Stokes are top three batsmen either.
taipan- Number of posts : 48416
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Re: Sri Lanka v England, 2nd Test, Kandy, 14-18 November, 2018
Mo & Sto look right up there with Reeks as top order bats. No ferkin idea v spin.
skully- Number of posts : 105794
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Re: Sri Lanka v England, 2nd Test, Kandy, 14-18 November, 2018
Exactly, they’re competing for places 5-8, that’s what I’m saying. We need to find proper top three batsmen, or otherwise play sloggers or permanent nightwatchmen up there.taipan wrote:beamer wrote:There’s no way Bairstow is a Test top three batsman, unless they try him as a genuine pinch-hitting opener and tell him to pretend the ball is white. He’s averaging 30-ish over his last 20 Tests, and it’s looking increasingly like 2016 was an unrepeatable purple patch in the longer game.
If Foakes is going to keep the gloves, then Bairstow is realistically competing with Buttler and the bowling all-rounders for a place in the middle to lower order. He might get a slot if we only need 5 bowlers, but in that case it’s still a judgement call that he offers significantly more with the bat than a Moeen/Woakes/Curran.
Neither Moeen nor Stokes are top three batsmen either.
beamer- Number of posts : 15399
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Re: Sri Lanka v England, 2nd Test, Kandy, 14-18 November, 2018
Just a word on Sri Lanka. While not all that good a team, they did beat Pakistan in the UAE and also comfortably beat South Africa and Australia in Sri Lanka.
Herath is clearly a big void, but Dilruwan has been their main wicket taker in the past year or so (seem to remember Herath carried them in the UAE). Beating them here is not a bad effort.
Also wonder how well a player like Adam Wheater, who has spent some time in Sri Lanka, will settle in such a team.
Herath is clearly a big void, but Dilruwan has been their main wicket taker in the past year or so (seem to remember Herath carried them in the UAE). Beating them here is not a bad effort.
Also wonder how well a player like Adam Wheater, who has spent some time in Sri Lanka, will settle in such a team.
tricycle- Number of posts : 13349
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Re: Sri Lanka v England, 2nd Test, Kandy, 14-18 November, 2018
Give Bairstow a go at 3 and i'd say he won't do any worse than our last 4 players to try that position. Though that isn't saying a lot.
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