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The pitching outside leg stump LBW law

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The pitching outside leg stump LBW law Empty The pitching outside leg stump LBW law

Post by beamer Sat 07 Mar 2009, 20:17

As every regular cricket watcher (apart from maybe Russell Tiffin) knows, you can't be LBW if the ball pitches outside leg stump. I guess the reason for this law is to discourage negative leg-side bowling, though I've never seen a clear explanation of why it's there.

As we've seen on many occasions it makes it very difficult for right-arm over bowlers to get LBW decisions against left-handed batsmen. With the balance of power so strongly with the bat right now, is it time for a change? Perhaps just allowing it if it pitches outside leg then hits in line, for example. After all the laws have evolved over the years, I believe there was a time when you couldn't be LBW if it pitched outside off either, and the "hitting outside off and not playing a shot" I believe is relatively recent.

Would such a change have any unintended consequences, like making spinners who turn the ball away from the bat totally unplayable, or encouraging negative lines? Or is it something the law-makers should consider?

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Post by skully Sat 07 Mar 2009, 21:44

Smug Spiv Geoff Lawson has been arguing for this law change for ages. Can't say I disagree. If it hits the batman in line and would've hit the stumps - on ya bike.
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Post by OP Tipping Sat 07 Mar 2009, 22:23

Yep.

Except I would not require it to hit the batsman in line.
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Post by Chivalry Augustus Sat 07 Mar 2009, 22:29

Shut up the lot of ya. You're ruining cricket.
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Post by beamer Sat 07 Mar 2009, 22:30

Augustus wrote:Shut up the lot of ya. You're ruining cricket.
And Tests with 17 wickets in 5 days aren't?

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Post by Chivalry Augustus Sat 07 Mar 2009, 22:34

beamer wrote:
Augustus wrote:Shut up the lot of ya. You're ruining cricket.
And Tests with 17 wickets in 5 days aren't?

And changing the lbw law's going to change the result of these Tests?

I'm happy enough with cricket in terms of the laws at the moment. We just need some good pitches for once.
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Post by beamer Sat 07 Mar 2009, 22:44

Just an idea to give the bowlers a bit of much-needed help. I'd say start with allowing hitting in line after pitching outside leg, before going the whole way which might make a good leg-spinner completely unplayable.

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Post by Chivalry Augustus Sat 07 Mar 2009, 23:09

So your great solution is french cricket, make the bowler aim to hit the batsman's legs. Sounds absolutely ****** riveting.
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Post by beamer Sat 07 Mar 2009, 23:27

Augustus wrote:So your great solution is french cricket, make the bowler aim to hit the batsman's legs. Sounds absolutely ****** riveting.
And the difference from it hitting the batsman's legs when it pitches outside off is... :?:

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Post by Chivalry Augustus Sat 07 Mar 2009, 23:28

you're bowling at the stumps and not the batsman. give them the whole pitch to aim at and you bowl for his legs and not the stumps.
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Post by beamer Sat 07 Mar 2009, 23:30

Augustus wrote:you're bowling at the stumps and not the batsman. give them the whole pitch to aim at and you bowl for his legs and not the stumps.
Well if it's LBW it has to be going on to hit the stumps anyway, remember... otherwise it's LBK (leg before keeper) or LBB (leg before boundary) which wasn't a method of dismissal last time I looked!

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Post by tac Sat 07 Mar 2009, 23:31

beamer wrote:
Augustus wrote:So your great solution is french cricket, make the bowler aim to hit the batsman's legs. Sounds absolutely ****** riveting.
And the difference from it hitting the batsman's legs when it pitches outside off is... :?:

By the nature of the batting stance, batsmen have limited ability to play a ball coming in to them from out side the leg stump . . . . the pads get in the way. The stance has been designed to defend against straight balls or those coming in from the off stump . . . have you never batted in a game?
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Post by beamer Sat 07 Mar 2009, 23:47

tac wrote:
beamer wrote:
Augustus wrote:So your great solution is french cricket, make the bowler aim to hit the batsman's legs. Sounds absolutely ****** riveting.
And the difference from it hitting the batsman's legs when it pitches outside off is... :?:

By the nature of the batting stance, batsmen have limited ability to play a ball coming in to them from out side the leg stump . . . . the pads get in the way. The stance has been designed to defend against straight balls or those coming in from the off stump . . . have you never batted in a game?
And world-class batsmen don't have the ability to adapt?

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Post by tac Sat 07 Mar 2009, 23:51

beamer wrote:
tac wrote:
beamer wrote:
Augustus wrote:So your great solution is french cricket, make the bowler aim to hit the batsman's legs. Sounds absolutely ****** riveting.
And the difference from it hitting the batsman's legs when it pitches outside off is... :?:

By the nature of the batting stance, batsmen have limited ability to play a ball coming in to them from out side the leg stump . . . . the pads get in the way. The stance has been designed to defend against straight balls or those coming in from the off stump . . . have you never batted in a game?
And world-class batsmen don't have the ability to adapt?

To balls pitching a foot outside leg spinning in and hitting their pad to be given out? Think about what position you'd have to be in to defend against that . . . it would become, as Gussie rightly suggested, French cricket. FFS, beamer, think about this stuff before you start dribbling on . . . .
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Post by beamer Sat 07 Mar 2009, 23:55

I wasn't referring to balls pitching a foot outside leg FFS. And isn't it about phucking time something was done about the balance between bat and ball... otherwise we may as well just give up on the other forms of the game and play T20 all the time like the fraudster Stanford wants?

And anyway, you Aussies have had the best leg-spinner in the last half-century at least. You wouldn't have been complaining if they had dropped that rule 10 years ago.

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Post by tac Sun 08 Mar 2009, 00:01

beamer wrote:Just an idea to give the bowlers a bit of much-needed help. I'd say start with allowing hitting in line after pitching outside leg, before going the whole way which might make a good leg-spinner completely unplayable.



beamer wrote:I wasn't referring to balls pitching a foot outside leg FFS. And isn't it about phucking time something was done about the balance between bat and ball... otherwise we may as well just give up on the other forms of the game and play T20 all the time like the fraudster Stanford wants?

And anyway, you Aussies have had the best leg-spinner in the last half-century at least. You wouldn't have been complaining if they had dropped that rule 10 years ago.

You're too farkin subtle for me, beamer . . .
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Post by Eric Air Emu Sun 08 Mar 2009, 00:07

[This is Rachel]

100 years ago there were virtually no LBWs because any sort of pad play was considered against the spirit of the game. Some batsmen refused to even wear pads.

By the 1930s, things had got bad so they introduced an experimental Law into County cricket whereby you could be out LBW even if you snicked the ball. This was designed to encourage more positive play by the batsmen, but only lasted a couple of seasons because, well, being out LBW when you have hit the ball is a bit bonkers, isn't it?

Another major change took place in the 1960s, following Cowdrey and, um, possibly Hutton padding away Ramadhin and Valentine all the livelong day for an entire series. It was then that the 'not playing a shot' part of the Law was introduced.

But to allow LBWs for a ball pitching outside leg stump would be an extremely negative move for cricket. Cricket is a 'sideways on' game, as tac and others have said. If you want to encourage bowlers to bowl it down the leg side, that's the way to do it. Would be f*cking boring cricket though. Or else batsmen would evolve, as you say, beamer. Did you ever see Peter Willey bat? It wasn't pretty.
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Post by beamer Sun 08 Mar 2009, 00:07

If it pitches a foot outside and hits in front then either it's clearly missing off, or spinning so much nobody has a clue where it's going, or the batsman's so far back he deserves to be out anyway!

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Post by Eric Air Emu Sun 08 Mar 2009, 00:08

[This is Rachel]

ps. This idea must be mental to have me agreeing with tac.
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Post by Chivalry Augustus Sun 08 Mar 2009, 00:09

Run rates would also be well down and metronomic bowlers would thrive pegging the line on leg-stump. 7 - 3 on-side field with the bowler hitting on or around leg stump. Maybe a leg slip in place instead of a slip.

It would alter the game.
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Post by tac Sun 08 Mar 2009, 00:10

beamer wrote:If it pitches a foot outside and hits in front then either it's clearly missing off, or spinning so much nobody has a clue where it's going, or the batsman's so far back he deserves to be out anyway!


WTF?
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Post by beamer Sun 08 Mar 2009, 00:12

tac wrote:
beamer wrote:If it pitches a foot outside and hits in front then either it's clearly missing off, or spinning so much nobody has a clue where it's going, or the batsman's so far back he deserves to be out anyway!


WTF?
Want a diagram FFS?

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Post by tac Sun 08 Mar 2009, 00:12

beamer wrote:
tac wrote:
beamer wrote:If it pitches a foot outside and hits in front then either it's clearly missing off, or spinning so much nobody has a clue where it's going, or the batsman's so far back he deserves to be out anyway!


WTF?
Want a diagram FFS?

I'm not sure you could farkin draw one . . . . study
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Post by Eric Air Emu Sun 08 Mar 2009, 00:13

[This is Rachel]

tac,

I think beamer is trying to say that such balls, although probably going on to hit according to the laws of physics, would never be given out by an umpire on the field of play.

I think he is missing the more fundamental point that such balls would be called as Wides.
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Post by beamer Sun 08 Mar 2009, 00:13

*


Last edited by beamer on Sun 08 Mar 2009, 00:30; edited 1 time in total

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