UK politics thread

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Re: UK politics thread

Post by Basil on Thu 01 May 2014, 21:09

Brass Monkey wrote:Oh yeah, for defo.... get the f*cking racist UKIP in, to teach the corrupt big three a lesson. Ingenious idea. F*ck it - get the Nazis in, I'm sure they could teach them a thing or two.................

I would rather bathe my meat and two veg in a vat of battery acid than vote UKIP - but I get the gist of what Growler is saying. I am finding it harder and harder to cast my vote with anything like conviction. For me it's very much voting with little enthusiasm for the least of all evils.

Not sure what the answer is - yes, I am - it's proportional representation. But that's never going to happen now. So we're stuck with it. At least we can choose whether to vote and for whom. Millions would die and have died for the right.
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Re: UK politics thread

Post by Growler on Thu 01 May 2014, 23:14

Bas - if you really can't bring yourself to vote UKIP - and hold your nose before voting for anyone else may I respectfully offer you another option ?

Use the "none of you fookwits" option, by either putting a cross by more than one candidate, or just write "NOBODY" across it. It has to be counted as a spoilt ballot paper. Just imagine the shockwaves if spoiled papers shoved the LibDems into 4th place on a low turnout.

Many people don't see the real significance ...... a 60% turnout in effect says that 4 in 10 voters don't give a monkeys about who governs - and so they'll stay disconnected and riding roughshod over voters concerns. Many of that 40% do give a monkeys - but nobody represents their views, and they vote for no-one. By contrast, if even half of them went to the polls, and spoilt their papers - that would mean that a full 1/4 of the votes  cast & counted sent a "plague on all your houses"  message.

I agree with you - millions of men have fought and died the world over for the right to vote. Women too have suffered dreadfully, and in many places they still aren't afforded that right. That right to vote includes that unwritten option - none of you lot. Soooooo   ....... if you feel that you owe it to granddads generation to turn out - there's the way to do it without feeling dirty for doing so.
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Re: UK politics thread

Post by Basil on Thu 08 May 2014, 00:38

So, if Labour and the Tories end up with an equal share of the vote next year, Labour end up with an absolute majority. Genius! And commentators wonder why people are pissed of with politics and vote for vacuous lightweights like Farage!
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Re: UK politics thread

Post by beamer on Thu 08 May 2014, 00:44

On uniform swing, presumably... rarely turns out quite like that, but I think it tends to favour the party in power usually so it's surprising Labour will potentially benefit so much this time.

Of course if there's no Scottish MPs, or lame duck ones who will potentially serve a few months, it will complicate matters. Most likely a Labour majority that doesn't really count for anything!

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Re: UK politics thread

Post by JGK on Tue 02 Sep 2014, 01:53

So, how's the Scotland vote going to go? Surely they won't possible vote to leave the UK?

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Re: UK politics thread

Post by horace on Tue 02 Sep 2014, 02:15

JGK wrote:So, how's the Scotland vote going to go?  Surely they won't possible vote to leave the UK?


what will happen to the Oz flag????...various constitutional lawyerly types argue Oz would have a crisis as the constitution is predicated on Great Britain not Pomgolia....maybe the bellicose Avenging Abbott will (as First Dog suggests) declare war on the scotties....first measure will be the internment of Scottish Highland Terriers on Manus Island
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Re: UK politics thread

Post by LeFromage on Tue 02 Sep 2014, 02:25

JGK wrote:So, how's the Scotland vote going to go?  Surely they won't possible vote to leave the UK?

Looking tight. Thought it would go this way - lots of chest beating nationalism and anti-English, anti-Westminster, anti-Tory rhetoric firing up the Yes campaign.

It'll be a shame to "lose" Scotland, although mainly because the rest of the UK will end up footing the bill for their transition and will suffer from having a failed state on their doorstep if/when they implode.

Just hope the government keep to their word and refuse to enter into a currency union - which Alex Salmond seems to thinks Scotland have a rightful claim to. That'd be economic madness for the rest of the UK. The worst outcome is not if Scotland leaves the union, but if they become a burden to the rest of us because the government refuses to completely cut the cord.

Opinion polls have it 48% No to 41% Yes, 11% Undecided. Tradition has it that undecideds eventually break for the status quo, but it's the "Yes" campaign that's making gains in the final weeks - the youth are all in the yes camp and the voting age has been dropped to 16. If the kids come out to vote in big numbers, and it seems like they will, it could make the difference.
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Re: UK politics thread

Post by Big Dog on Tue 02 Sep 2014, 03:29

Dello wrote:
JGK wrote:So, how's the Scotland vote going to go?  Surely they won't possible vote to leave the UK?

Looking tight. Thought it would go this way - lots of chest beating nationalism and anti-English, anti-Westminster, anti-Tory rhetoric firing up the Yes campaign.

It'll be a shame to "lose" Scotland, although mainly because the rest of the UK will end up footing the bill for their transition and will suffer from having a failed state on their doorstep if/when they implode.

Just hope the government keep to their word and refuse to enter into a currency union - which Alex Salmond seems to thinks Scotland have a rightful claim to. That'd be economic madness for the rest of the UK. The worst outcome is not if Scotland leaves the union, but if they become a burden to the rest of us because the government refuses to completely cut the cord.

Opinion polls have it 48% No to 41% Yes, 11% Undecided. Tradition has it that undecideds eventually break for the status quo, but it's the "Yes" campaign that's making gains in the final weeks - the youth are all in the yes camp and the voting age has been dropped to 16. If the kids come out to vote in big numbers, and it seems like they will, it could make the difference.

Just highlights the stupidity of letting kids vote. The Greens have been trying to get the voting age lowered here because they know politically naive kids will vote with their balls instead of their brains & they will benefit from young voters inexperience.
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Re: UK politics thread

Post by taipan on Tue 02 Sep 2014, 04:28

Is 16 the bot in age for the whole UK?

Madness.
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Re: UK politics thread

Post by JGK on Tue 02 Sep 2014, 05:48

taipan wrote:Is 16 the bot in age for the whole UK?

Madness.


On the iPad on the dunny again?

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Re: UK politics thread

Post by JGK on Tue 02 Sep 2014, 05:51

Well I guess New Zealand willl be happy - it will finally have a comparable size English speaking democracy it can talk to at OECD meetings.

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Re: UK politics thread

Post by taipan on Tue 02 Sep 2014, 06:29

JGK wrote:
taipan wrote:Is 16 the bot in age for the whole UK?

Madness.


On the iPad on the dunny again?

Was in the bath actually.
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Re: UK politics thread

Post by LeFromage on Tue 02 Sep 2014, 08:21

taipan wrote:Is 16 the bot in age for the whole UK?

Madness.

No, it's 18, like normal countries.

Somehow the UK government were persuaded to drop the voting age to 16 - just this once - by the SNP, who either saw them coming or the Tories are deliberately trying to lose a region that has no political value to them as they vote Labour, Lib Dems or SNP.

Madness.
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Re: UK politics thread

Post by horace on Tue 02 Sep 2014, 08:47

is voting compulsory?
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Re: UK politics thread

Post by taipan on Tue 02 Sep 2014, 08:51

horace wrote:is voting compulsory?

Only in communist countries.
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Re: UK politics thread

Post by Brass Monkey on Tue 02 Sep 2014, 12:31

Dello wrote:

No, it's 18, like normal countries.

Somehow the UK government were persuaded to drop the voting age to 16 - just this once - by the SNP, who either saw them coming or the Tories are deliberately trying to lose a region that has no political value to them as they vote Labour, Lib Dems or SNP.

Madness.

Yeah, can't see the Tories being that bothered - the only reason we've had any Labour government in the past 35 years is because of the Jocks and their decent morals.
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Re: UK politics thread

Post by MoH on Tue 02 Sep 2014, 12:40

Brass Monkey wrote:
Dello wrote:

No, it's 18, like normal countries.

Somehow the UK government were persuaded to drop the voting age to 16 - just this once - by the SNP, who either saw them coming or the Tories are deliberately trying to lose a region that has no political value to them as they vote Labour, Lib Dems or SNP.

Madness.

Yeah, can't see the Tories being that bothered - the only reason we've had any Labour government in the past 35 years is because of the Jocks and their decent morals.

That's what I thought as well but apparently not:

"On no occasion since 1945 would independence have changed the identity of the winning party and on only two occasions would it have converted a Labour majority into a hung parliament (1964 and October 1974). Without Scotland, Labour would still have won in 1945 (with a majority of 146, down from 143), in 1966 (77, down from 98), in 1997 (139, down from 179), in 2001 (129, down from 167) and in 2005 (43, down from 66)."

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/11/why-scottish-independence-wouldnt-mean-permanent-majority-tories

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Re: UK politics thread

Post by beamer on Tue 02 Sep 2014, 18:02

The Yes-ites seem to be gaining ground as expected, although we've yet to see a poll where they're ahead. Predicting which way more of the undecideds will sway is very difficult in something like this.

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Re: UK politics thread

Post by Brass Monkey on Tue 02 Sep 2014, 18:10

MoH wrote:
That's what I thought as well but apparently not:

"On no occasion since 1945 would independence have changed the identity of the winning party and on only two occasions would it have converted a Labour majority into a hung parliament (1964 and October 1974). Without Scotland, Labour would still have won in 1945 (with a majority of 146, down from 143), in 1966 (77, down from 98), in 1997 (139, down from 179), in 2001 (129, down from 167) and in 2005 (43, down from 66)."

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/11/why-scottish-independence-wouldnt-mean-permanent-majority-tories

Ah, very interesting - cheers for posting the link
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Re: UK politics thread

Post by horace on Wed 03 Sep 2014, 02:03

taipan wrote:
horace wrote:is voting compulsory?

Only in communist countries.

hmmn...compulsory here but last I noticed workers collectives had not assumed control of BHP or Rio
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Re: UK politics thread

Post by Merlin on Wed 03 Sep 2014, 08:59

The YES vote continues to gather momentum in the final weeks run-up ...
Salmond is doing his damndest to fan the flames of uncertainty, whilst omitting to clarify what an independent Scottish Parliament would ACTUALLY do with regard to the salient issues like a. the Pound, b. cross Border control and c. membership of the EU.

Couldn't give a toss either way TBF, except that if the Jocks do break away, then it's the English tax payer who will be footing the bill covering the divorce, NOT the Jocks.... coz right now, the Jocks have nothing in their coffers to fork out.

Common sense and a greasy bacon butty will decide on the day ....
Don't hold your breath!
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Re: UK politics thread

Post by JGK on Wed 03 Sep 2014, 09:10

Wouldn't the rest of the UK just invade them and start the 800 year clock again?

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Re: UK politics thread

Post by Merlin on Wed 03 Sep 2014, 09:22

JGK wrote:Wouldn't the rest of the UK just invade them and start the 800 year clock again?

Sadly no ... we'd need an Edward Longshanks to lead from the front, but I cannot somehow envisage either
Lisbet (it's all mine) or her son and heir, Charlie Titface (hello tree) climbing atop a horse and leading the charge,
sword drawn and armour rattling.
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Re: UK politics thread

Post by JGK on Wed 03 Sep 2014, 09:33

Merlin wrote:
JGK wrote:Wouldn't the rest of the UK just invade them and start the 800 year clock again?

Sadly no ... we'd need an Edward Longshanks to lead from the front, but I cannot somehow envisage either
Lisbet (it's all mine) or her son and heir, Charlie Titface (hello tree) climbing atop a horse and leading the charge,
sword drawn and armour rattling.


They might if they had to give up the title to Balmoral Castle.

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Re: UK politics thread

Post by Merlin on Wed 03 Sep 2014, 09:51

JGK wrote:
Merlin wrote:
JGK wrote:Wouldn't the rest of the UK just invade them and start the 800 year clock again?

Sadly no ... we'd need an Edward Longshanks to lead from the front, but I cannot somehow envisage either
Lisbet (it's all mine) or her son and heir, Charlie Titface (hello tree) climbing atop a horse and leading the charge,
sword drawn and armour rattling.


They might if they had to give up the title to Balmoral Castle.

Excellent point.
It's where they languish as we speak (on their summer holidays LoL ) hunting
deer (for fun) and shooting pheasants (and peasants) at will.
Yes, losing Balmoral would be a grave affrontage to their Teutonic heritage, but
not one I believe they'd lay their lives down for.

After all, they always have the comfort of Buckingham Palace, The Royal Mews, Windsor Castle,
The Palace of Holyroodhouse, Frogmore, Sandringham , St James's Palace, Kensington Palace
and Clarence House (to name just a few) residences, all provided with electricity and gas,
to collapse into after a hard days slog.
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