Decent article on Pup by Crowe

Looked this up after Nicholarse referred to it.

I particularly agree with this bit...

"Clarke is a true leader of the modern day. He is smart, energetic, skilful, and inspirational. He is so under appreciated by his fellow countrymen it's not funny. His tactical brain is as good as Mark Taylor's, and better than his two predecessors; Steve Waugh and Ricky Ponting. Too often it's a misunderstanding and a misinterpretation of a good man, a fine player. It's simply a case of operating in a completely different era. Australia will have more bad days. In the past you wondered if that would ever be the case. Back then a lot of gushing went on. These bad days get folk snapping.

Mostly, I like Clarke's equilibrium. He is modern day and old fashioned, flash and stoic, cool and emotional. He is pleasure and pain. Most importantly, he is unique and himself. No one is like him, and not enough like him when they should. He is a treasure and Australia should be damn proud of him. "

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Clarke is far and away Aus's best cricketer, yet the narks feel the need to find reasons to hate him. People are entitled to their opinion, but far too many seem to fall into the modern online trend of abusing and bitching and whinging and narking about everything.

I'm just grateful he's an Aussie.

who's the next Test captain though?

Who gives a fark? He's 32 FFS, he has another 4 years at least in him provided he manages his back.

Clarke is a true leader of the modern day. He is smart, energetic, skilful, and inspirational. He is so under appreciated by his fellow countrymen it's not funny. His tactical brain is as good as Mark Taylor's, and better than his two predecessors; Steve Waugh and Ricky Ponting. wrote:

Clarkes biggest problem is that he's not a natural leader & therefore doesnt get the same respect that Waugh & Ponting did.

Respect? What? From the public? I'd reckon those in the team ATM, save maybe Twatson, are 100% behind Pup.

skully wrote:Respect? What? From the public? I'd reckon those in the team ATM, save maybe Twatson, are 100% behind Pup.

I'm not so sure.

Meh, as I said you are entitled to your opinion. I prefer mine that supports the best player we have.

Michael Vaughan wrote an article the other day saying something a little different. He remarked how Clarke is actually lauded for being a great captain, especially by Warne yet hasn't really got the record to back it up yet.

One could argue it generally gets back to the team you've had command of because you can't win it with monkeys but it's probably also fair to say that under his captaincy we've seen our dirty laundry aired more often than most captains in our living memory. That might go down as a black mark.

Aus has had some stunning defeats under Clarke.

Red wrote:Michael Vaughan wrote an article the other day saying something a little different. He remarked how Clarke is actually lauded for being a great captain, especially by Warne yet hasn't really got the record to back it up yet.

One could argue it generally gets back to the team you've had command of because you can't win it with monkeys but it's probably also fair to say that under his captaincy we've seen our dirty laundry aired more often than most captains in our living memory. That might go down as a black mark.

You can blame the Saffer sook of an ex-coach for that. What a pea-hearted sook. I think it's safe to say he's farked his chances of ever having a national coaching job again, unless the Yarps are stoopid enough to take him back, but given that he doesn't like Koaja types, I think that is long odds. Gary Kirsten he ain't.

skully wrote:

Red wrote:Michael Vaughan wrote an article the other day saying something a little different. He remarked how Clarke is actually lauded for being a great captain, especially by Warne yet hasn't really got the record to back it up yet.

One could argue it generally gets back to the team you've had command of because you can't win it with monkeys but it's probably also fair to say that under his captaincy we've seen our dirty laundry aired more often than most captains in our living memory. That might go down as a black mark.

You can blame the Saffer sook of an ex-coach for that. What a pea-hearted sook. I think it's safe to say he's farked his chances of ever having a national coaching job again, unless the Yarps are stoopid enough to take him back, but given that he doesn't like Koaja types, I think that is long odds. Gary Kirsten he ain't.

Ah the standard Aussie excuse. It's all the Saffie's fault. As weak as.

Red wrote:blah blah blah but it's probably also fair to say that under his captaincy we've seen our dirty laundry aired more often than most captains in our living memory. That might go down as a black mark.

Thanks to the magic of the net and the Social Bloody Media, there's been a hell of a lot more Mighty Mouse heroes around to spread the dirty laundry when Clarke's been captain than anybody else.

We'll his innings today was superb. That pull shot early off Broad might have changed the course of the 10 test series.

Whoever's bright idea it was to so ostentatiously concede him his first single so Broad could get at him has definitely offered his last piece of tactical advice. It even shunts Deano's call on Curtley's sweatbands.

I had to giggle when Warne was talking about captaincy on Day 1 and Vawn piped up with "So when is Clarke going to be PM?"

If Vorgan slips a few more in sideways like that when the others get too bombastic, he's a great addition to the team.

I must admit I haven't read the whole article, but just looking at the extract Skulls cites, it seems to me a bit too rose-tinted, a bit too fawning.

Clarke commands respect for his outstanding batting skills, and also deserves a lot of credit for his (generally) adventurous strategic/tactical decisions, such as when to declare.

However, as regards personality and man management skills, there is clearly a lot more of a problem. While it's also true that there have been a few (too many) immature characters in the team also, inclined to go their own way, I'd assess it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. Katich was not a brat, and such players a decent captain should be able to get on board, at least for the rainier days ahead. Not resort to the likes of Phil Hughes.

"The rainier days" are when things are not going so well - v South Africa, in India, or when England are on one of their (all too rare) "up" phases. While the sun shines, on the other hand - when Clarke is scoring tons, and others too, when the bowlers are fit and on song, Clarke is the undisputed leader.

In a word, I think the difference has been Lehmann, myself. The man management has been excellent since he came in, the homework has been superb: the captain and his team can train with that information, and then just go out and play.

When do Aus next meet South Africa? That will be interesting, the acid test(s).

In the shorter term, it will be interesting if England can stage a comeback from this shambles of being ill-prepared (not undercooked, but apparently homework-free), unsettled in an increasing number of key positions (it's not just the third seamer problem, it's the spinner, the keeper, the number 3, .... and perhaps more), out-thought and outplayed.

February/March

PeterCS wrote:In the shorter term, it will be interesting if England can stage a comeback from this shambles of being ill-prepared (not undercooked, but apparently homework-free), unsettled in an increasing number of key positions (it's not just the third seamer problem, it's the spinner, the keeper, the number 3, .... and perhaps more), out-thought and outplayed.

That's been the most dramatic change. 4 tests ago he was so solid that I watched him bat with dsimay because I could not see a way that we could get him out. Now he looks like a cros between Andrew Hilditch and Phil Tufnel

To the non-Aus posters, you can think what you like about Pup. I'd be surprised if any of you had a reasonable thing to say about the Aus skipper - that's life.

My posting of the article was more aimed at the Aussie narks who continue to despise our best player. It's their right, but this was an article written by a quality ex-Test player from a highly combative neighbouring country. Just thought it might add some unbiased perspective.

Red wrote:Michael Vaughan wrote an article the other day saying something a little different. He remarked how Clarke is actually lauded for being a great captain, especially by Warne yet hasn't really got the record to back it up yet.

One could argue it generally gets back to the team you've had command of because you can't win it with monkeys but it's probably also fair to say that under his captaincy we've seen our dirty laundry aired more often than most captains in our living memory. That might go down as a black mark.

Before Michael Vaughan wrested back the Ashes in '05, none of Athers, Stewart or Nasser Hussain were poor captains. Their records were far from stellar, but they were leading far from stellar teams.

IMO Pup isn't a bad skipper of a pretty ordinary team of players. Since retirement, Warney has become a gob on a stick whom nobody really takes seriously.

The thing with your last paragraph, Red, is that no you can't have sustained success with monkeys - but when your team is sweeping all before it, and its months since you even drew a series. let alone lost one - there's not much dirty laundry worth airing, and the fans don't care about it anyway ..... and hasn't that been the case for many on here within living memory?

skully wrote:To the non-Aus posters, you can think what you like about Pup. I'd be surprised if any of you had a reasonable thing to say about the Aus skipper - that's life.

....

Another wildly sweeping statement! (After you alleged a few hours ago that "all" Pom posters had thrown in the towel for this series - "weak as" what?)

In fact, a REASONABLE assessment of Clarke's strengths and weaknesses is exactly what I attempted above.

Whereas I feel Martin Crowe, great player that he undoubtedly was, was letting off a hell of a lot of built-up long-standing steam of his own - which makes his unconditional idolisation of Michael Clarke as a captain entirely understandable, but also insanely unbalanced.


With Richard Hadlee, Crowe was at the heart of a New Zealand side which enjoyed considerable success in the 1980s After an excellent season at Somerset in 1984, he was lured back to lead the side in 1987. But it followed the departure of Viv Richards, Joel Garner and Ian Botham, and the spell there was not happy and was also blighted by some barbed media coverage of his private life.

(cricinfo profile)

Waddle quoted Brendon McCullum's line from 2011 when the batsman-keeper claimed the New Zealand players stopped listening to Martin Crowe "years ago". The irony of course is that in the pages of [his autobiography] "Raw", Crowe provides us with honest insight into why the shutters may have come down: "Anyone who criticised or questioned my motives or personality was the enemy," he writes. "(I) became a resentful man, a man who harboured grudges. (I) became the world record-holder for grievances."

http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/644417.html

Similarly, December 2012, perhaps coincidentally with reference to the same McCullum:

Crowe, widely hailed as New Zealand's best ever batsman, has been fiercely critical of last week's decision to drop Taylor in favour of Brendon McCullum in an effort to reinvigorate the misfiring Black Caps. And the New Zealand Herald has reported that Crowe torched his prized blazer last Friday, when news of Taylor's demotion was made public. It said he tweeted "Burnt NZ cricket blazer Dec 7, 2012. RIP", adding that both the tweet and the account it was sent from had since been deleted.

(...) The 50-year-old blasted New Zealand Cricket over the ousted skipper's treatment over the weekend in a column on cricketing website Cricinfo, saying it had "destroyed the soul of Ross Taylor". "They have amputated his spirit and there is no prosthetic for that," Crowe wrote.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/newzealand/9741761/Martin-Crowe-burns-New-Zealand-blazer-over-sacking-of-Ross-Taylor-as-captain.html

A still seething man rushes to the aid of one that he - erroneously - feels is a kindred, victimised spirit.

Calm down, Petey. No need to take such WILD offense.

You seem to have completely missed my point, which I clarified in the post you seem agitated about, but that's OK.