Why Are England So W@nk?

It's time for the latest in the twice weekly installments. We've asked it a million times but surely someone can provide a reason? Bureaucracy at the top? Weak-mindedness at the bottom? Reverse quntery between the ECB and the counties? Too many counties, too much cricket, too many players? Not enough flids playing cricket? Wrong attitude? Too many rupees? Too many foreigners? Terrible infrastructure? Too many whining cricket forummers?

It's 5th rank v best in the world... have you not seen any of our cricket for the past 2 years Gus?

Too much - this is a wider question encompassing the embarrassing defeat to the Windies. One good thing about this is it shows how much of a breath of fresh air Flower and Strauss ain't! Never wanted them in the first place but they seem set on proving me right.

Ok, well our best 'demon bowler' who has mastered swing Jimmykins averages about 35.

Tells you all you need to know.

And that we've batted like Glory boys for the past few years, lost count of the gimmies handed to the opposition when we've had them on the rack.

We're the sort of side that can go from scoring 51 all out to 600 in the next innings.

Oh, and we keep losing the first test of a series and have to play catch up.

If you want the real reasons - county cricket produces test class cricketers but not great ones. It's a sad indictment of it that South Africa has produced our greatest batsman since Graham Gooch.

Graham Gooch? Nonsense. Since Graham Thorpe.

And England produced Pietersen. He became a batsman here no matter what you might think. It was his attitude that set him apart. Aesop would mete some sort of sense out of that story.

Not strictly true, as everyone knows Pietersen was a number eight/nine with a FC average in the 20s when he threw his lot in with England.

More that he's his own creation - his attitude and commitment to being all that he can be puts to shame about 99% of FC cricketers in this country.

If he only had the bloody-minded "get in, cash in" focus of a Ponting, Tendulkar or a Kallis, Pietersen would average about 70.

Chav beat me to the punch there.

JKLever wrote:It's 5th rank v best in the world... have you not seen any of our cricket for the past 2 years Gus?

The point is though this isn't even a great Australian side. Decent batting line-up though nowhere near what it's been for the past 15 years, ordinary bowling side especially without Lee and the bizarrely omitted Clark.

Still, they are still in the top three along with India and South Africa, in whatever order, and the question is are England happy to just compete with the West Indies and New Zealand, and perhaps Sri Lanka and Pakistan? We had an amazing 18 months which raised everyone's expectations a few years back, but otherwise we've been crap to mediocre for 25 years. The problem is our county game, too soft, talent spread too thinly and without the intensity to create world-class players. Of course the counties themselves will never vote to reduce numbers or take away their FC status, so I think what's needed is perhaps a rebel competition, get Sky behind it and undermine the ECB to create a new competition that will produce a quality England side once the powers back down and accept the new structure.

We could have a whip round, beams, set up an alternative domestic competition.

The Flaming Bails Cup Of Cricket Knockout (FBCOCK). Eight teams. Tom to open the batting for all of them.

It's a winner.

Well it's having 18 teams playing at the top flight when there's only enough people playing cricket, interest and money to support half that number. These threads even bore me after a while...

Still I think the deeper malaise is no-one gives enough of a sh*t to drastically change things- a lot of "proper" cricket fans are fatalistic and accepting of England's place in the world's pecking order. I mean F*ck me Giles Clarke gets away with ineptitude and dishonesty that would put top bankers to shame and we just find it vaguely amusing. The 3 Lions of England cricket just hold no currency and it's a shame for those of us willing to bat 43 overs for 8 runs out of pure bloody commitment to their team and the game.

Get some mergers going. Cut the teams down to 9 or 10. No overseasers.

Hampsex - Hampshire and Sussex

Carberry
Yardy
Lumb
Pietersen
Joyce
Crawley
Vince
Wright
Prior+
Hodd+
Dawson
Rayner
Beer
Riazuddin
Tremlett
Tomlinson
Kirtley
Cork

That's why it needs someone with money to come up with something revolutionary to change things in the English game, as those on the inside won't do so themselves as they are driven by self-interest and dislike of change.

Also there's been plenty of discussion about the future of Test cricket since the rise of Twenty20 etc - I'd say if Test cricket is to have a future it needs the Ashes to be competitive, and for all the build-up to this one the truth is it's provided only one genuine contest in the last 20 years.

Surrey & Middlesex- the entire Surrey squad whoever they are nowadays and Shaun Udal.

beamer wrote:That's why it needs someone with money to come up with something revolutionary to change things in the English game, as those on the inside won't do so themselves as they are driven by self-interest and dislike of change.

Also there's been plenty of discussion about the future of Test cricket since the rise of Twenty20 etc - I'd say if Test cricket is to have a future it needs the Ashes to be competitive, and for all the build-up to this one the truth is it's provided only one genuine contest in the last 20 years.

Of for say a Texan billionaire with a helicopter full of money...

Oh and by crikey the Ashes are overrated- I really cringed during the week seeing all these extra Ashes supplements, 2005 retrospectives and mega in depth coverage. There has literally been one close Ashes series in 20 years!!!

Kex - Kent and Essex

Key
Denly
Cook
Bopara
Pettini
Mickleburgh
Westley
Northeast
Jones +
Foster +
Joseph
Khan
Cook
Napier
Wright
Chambers
Westfield
Tredwell

Dello wrote:Kex - Kent and Essex

Key
Denly
Cook
Bopara
Foster +
Joseph
Khan
Napier

The only non-not entirely gash ones out of that mob.

Fark the mergers.... don't make me bring out my regional cricket theories again FFS

Eric Air Emu wrote:

beamer wrote:That's why it needs someone with money to come up with something revolutionary to change things in the English game, as those on the inside won't do so themselves as they are driven by self-interest and dislike of change.

Also there's been plenty of discussion about the future of Test cricket since the rise of Twenty20 etc - I'd say if Test cricket is to have a future it needs the Ashes to be competitive, and for all the build-up to this one the truth is it's provided only one genuine contest in the last 20 years.

Of for say a Texan billionaire with a helicopter full of money...

Oh and by crikey the Ashes are overrated- I really cringed during the week seeing all these extra Ashes supplements, 2005 retrospectives and mega in depth coverage. There has literally been one close Ashes series in 20 years!!!

Well that's exactly what I said. But we need some close series as England and Australia are the only countries that regularly get sell-out crowds for Test cricket. It's not in a healthy state in a lot of other countries, so this is the flagship series that has to deliver.

As for Stanford, well it was a gamble that didn't come off (as perhaps goes for his entire business as well!) Just a case of the ECB predictably backing the wrong horse, and predictably as a result they won't take any risks for years to come.

Eric Air Emu wrote:Surrey & Middlesex- the entire Surrey squad whoever they are nowadays and Shaun Udal.

Suddlesex

Newman
Godleman
Shah
Dexter
Malan
Ramprakash
Afzaal
Strauss
Morgan
Scott +
Nash+
Finn
Jordan
Dernbach
Evans
Meaker
Murtagh
Spriegel
Schofield

JKLever wrote:

Dello wrote:Kex - Kent and Essex

Key
Denly
Cook
Bopara
Foster +
Joseph
Khan
Napier

The only non-not entirely gash ones out of that mob.

Eight non-gashlords/overseasers out of the XI is a step up for both Essex and Kent.

beamer wrote:

Eric Air Emu wrote:

beamer wrote:That's why it needs someone with money to come up with something revolutionary to change things in the English game, as those on the inside won't do so themselves as they are driven by self-interest and dislike of change.

Also there's been plenty of discussion about the future of Test cricket since the rise of Twenty20 etc - I'd say if Test cricket is to have a future it needs the Ashes to be competitive, and for all the build-up to this one the truth is it's provided only one genuine contest in the last 20 years.

Of for say a Texan billionaire with a helicopter full of money...

Oh and by crikey the Ashes are overrated- I really cringed during the week seeing all these extra Ashes supplements, 2005 retrospectives and mega in depth coverage. There has literally been one close Ashes series in 20 years!!!

Well that's exactly what I said. But we need some close series as England and Australia are the only countries that regularly get sell-out crowds for Test cricket. It's not in a healthy state in a lot of other countries, so this is the flagship series that has to deliver.

As for Stanford, well it was a gamble that didn't come off (as perhaps goes for his entire business as well!) Just a case of the ECB predictably backing the wrong horse, and predictably as a result they won't take any risks for years to come.

So the answer should be that Australia should throw the odd series and make the ones they win seem a bit closer- like it or not they benefited big-time from the 05 Ashes. Let's just make the Ashes like wrestling and have it all scripted with every series decided in the final session of the last test with everyone wearing tight lycra pants.

Nottcesterdirebyshire - actually forget the last two, let's just keep the Notts side and ditch all traces of the others...

Dello wrote:

Eric Air Emu wrote:Surrey & Middlesex- the entire Surrey squad whoever they are nowadays and Shaun Udal.

Suddlesex

Newman
Godleman
Shah
Dexter
Malan
Ramprakash
Afzaal
Strauss
Morgan
Scott +
Nash+
Finn
Jordan
Dernbach
Evans
Meaker
Murtagh
Spriegel
Schofield

Well no point keeping Nash- he's older than Batty and is a 2nd xi player these days and Michael Brown is better than every Middlesex bat save Shah. Morgan's irish so should be an overseas player and Dexter's only a figment of the imagination. Going in the right direction though...

Dello wrote:

Eric Air Emu wrote:Surrey & Middlesex- the entire Surrey squad whoever they are nowadays and Shaun Udal.

Suddlesex


Dexter
Malan
Jordan
Dernbach
Meaker

And yet still we managed to sneak 5 overseas born players into a combined side.

Jordan, Dernbach & Meaker were all born in Epsom.