Why are modern captains so timid and afraid of losing?

The only captain I can recall actually putting it on the line in the last 20 years was Tubby (and maybe Gilly at Leeds in 2001). Viv Richards used to well and truly bat the opposition out of the game before unleashing his 4 prong pace battery. AB learned from this lesson and always used to make sure a game could not be lost before he would declare. SRW used to ruthlessly grind the opposition into the dust and Punter also relies on huge leads to allow his bowlers to go to work. Sooky tried a generous declaration v Aus at Sydney a couple of years ago and got caned.

I'm with Merlin. Jayawardene's declaration was fine. He has Chuck FFS.

I think the bigger issue is that many batsmen aren't prepared to risk their averages by going for quick runs. India in the second dig should have been scoring 5rpo.

Aust have been blessed with Gilly in that regard. How many times has the declaration come soon after he has been caught in the outfield?

"The only captain I can recall actually putting it on the line in the last 20 years was Tubby"

The instances aren't flooding to mind...

If you 1-0 up in the second test match of a 3 match series, why on Earth would you even consider giving the oppo a chance of winning the game, and getting back into the series.

I do think however that alot of the declarations these days are a tad too negative. However I also think that captains are aware of the fact that 200 runs in 40 overs is a disctinct possibility these days. Its no longer that 3 an over is going some. 4 or 5 an over is easy in certain instances.

Also Jayawardena in his defence only really has one strike bowler, in fact most teams thesed ays only have one capable of rolling a side - except the aussies (an even thats a little unsure these days with the two big guns gone)! So they need to be cautious as they can only attack from one end in the majority of situations.

No surprises who started this thread.

Whinging about late declarations washes about as well as Bob Geldof. If you want to be set a target your bats can reach, improve your batsman, your bowlers or both.

In fairness to Mahela, he did say post-match, that he believed that it would have taken over 2 days to prise England out on that wicket - and there was no better judge of the wicket than him tbh!
1-0 up, with one to play - prolong the oppo's agony - rub it in ... make them uncomfortable - gain the psychological upper hand ... nothing to lose and all to gain.

horace wrote:erm...australia always sets about trying to win the game,. i think the indian habit of going for draws from the outset shows they have not fully removed the pernicious conservative influence of the english colonists

...whereas no English influences ever reached Australia.

Henry wrote:It seems like declarations these days are so much safer than what they used to be 10-15 years ago. Mahela should have declared a lot earlier against England today, and Kumble made an absolutely awful declaration against Pakistan, leaving them something like 350 to win in 48 overs on what had become a very tricky pitch. FFS. No wonder no one is watching Test cricket anymore. Oh yeah, and who could forget Dravid at the Oval. Pathetic and spineless stuff. Perhaps Test wins should carry more weight on the ICC rankings?

Name me some declarations "10-15 years ago" which were less safe?

Bas, don't ask Mudgikins to make sense, you'll be waiting a long time.

JGK wrote:I think the bigger issue is that many batsmen aren't prepared to risk their averages by going for quick runs. India in the second dig should have been scoring 5rpo.

Aust have been blessed with Gilly in that regard. How many times has the declaration come soon after he has been caught in the outfield?

....finally an implicit critique of k snr from a dubber

Phurt . . . K snr was a red-ink hunting knob for the latter half of his career. Not a patch on Taylor as a captain either . . . he personally lost us that series in India.

wise words from tac - as ever

JGK wrote:I think the bigger issue is that many batsmen aren't prepared to risk their averages by going for quick runs. India in the second dig should have been scoring 5rpo.

Aust have been blessed with Gilly in that regard. How many times has the declaration come soon after he has been caught in the outfield?

Easier said than done. No two balls were bouncing the same and Pakistan had uber defensive fields.

Uber defensive fields mean that an easy single is on offer every ball.

It is just like the late overs of a JAMODI.

And for Steve Waugh - there was no criticism. He pioneered the art of using the batting line up as an attacking weapon by scoring at 4rpo.

Fred Nerk wrote:"The only captain I can recall actually putting it on the line in the last 20 years was Tubby"

The instances aren't flooding to mind...

What I meant Nerky was that Tubby was much more likely to declare with a lead of 300-350 than SRW or Punter, who preferred 400-500.

Could be right there but it might have had more to do with the batting - Tubby never had Gilly in his team to push the scoring rate through the roof.

Actual decalartions of Tubby's I can only recall three: first two Tests of 94-95, when Australia got badly bogged down in both second innings but won both matches with 4 hours to spare, and the middle Test in Pak in 98 when he declared with himself on 334, too late but prob would still have been too late on that pitch at 34.

JGK wrote:And for Steve Waugh - there was no criticism. He pioneered the art of using the batting line up as an attacking weapon by scoring at 4rpo.

That was a Buchanan tactic. As soon as he became coach of Queensland, he got them to lift their run-rate considerably. He did the same thing when he became Australian coach. Waugh just happened to be the captain at the time.

Fred Nerk wrote:Could be right there but it might have had more to do with the batting - Tubby never had Gilly in his team to push the scoring rate through the roof.

Aye.

I've a feeling that when Gilly goes it will have a bigger impact on our side than Warnie or McGrath.

In modern cricket taking wickets isn't as hard as it used to be (see what Subi Clark, a to be frank pedestrian Shield bowler, has done at Test level)...

Having a bloke at 7 who averages 50 and can make you a run a ball 100 is a once in a dozen generations luxury.

WideWally wrote:

JGK wrote:And for Steve Waugh - there was no criticism. He pioneered the art of using the batting line up as an attacking weapon by scoring at 4rpo.

That was a Buchanan tactic. As soon as he became coach of Queensland, he got them to lift their run-rate considerably. He did the same thing when he became Australian coach. Waugh just happened to be the captain at the time.

a very sound call from wide wally...the bills started the aggressive play and bucks brought it to the Oz team...one notable Oz batsmen (now ret) had a strike rate that continually undermined the 4 RPO target...now who was that???

Surely not S.Waugh? :|

Wouldn't have figured it worth mentioning otherwise....

Waughs's tactics on those occasions can be justified because they were wholly motivated by a wish to annoy Horrie.

Fred Nerk wrote:Wouldn't have figured it worth mentioning otherwise....

Waughs's tactics on those occasions can be justified because they were wholly motivated by a wish to annoy Horrie.

lol ..it was more his inaction tactics while batting...

and btw...it did annoy me

Basil wrote:

Henry wrote:It seems like declarations these days are so much safer than what they used to be 10-15 years ago. Mahela should have declared a lot earlier against England today, and Kumble made an absolutely awful declaration against Pakistan, leaving them something like 350 to win in 48 overs on what had become a very tricky pitch. FFS. No wonder no one is watching Test cricket anymore. Oh yeah, and who could forget Dravid at the Oval. Pathetic and spineless stuff. Perhaps Test wins should carry more weight on the ICC rankings?

Name me some declarations "10-15 years ago" which were less safe?

As Henry didn't get back to me, can we take it that the initial premise of the thread is bollocks?

Basil - i think you have named the territory that Trev consistently inhabits