Should we give Gibraltar back to Spain?

Nationalistic tub-thumping aside, it is part of mainland Spain. It's not like it's some remote outcrop that nobody cares about.

It must be quite humiliating for the Spanish for the UK to maintain an unwanted presence in their country. Imagine if another country had sovereignty over, say, Cornwall. I don't think people in the UK would take kindly to it.

Neil D wrote:Nationalistic tub-thumping aside, it is part of mainland Spain.  It's not like it's some remote outcrop that nobody cares about.

It must be quite humiliating for the Spanish for the UK to maintain an unwanted presence in their country.  Imagine if another country had sovereignty over, say, Cornwall.  I don't think people in the UK would take kindly to it.

I think people in the UK wold like for someone else to take over the responsibilty of Cronwell. It's not as if they speak English,

The Kernow Liberation Front would certainly like themselves to be in sovereignty of Cornwall.

Surely if we promised a phased transition back to Spanish sovereignty, we could negotiate some stonking concessions to benefit UK businesses in Spain.

The Spanish government would fall over themselves to offer concessions - the return of Gibraltar to Spain would be an electoral jackpot for their government.

The Spanish can bugger off. British Citizens having been living in Gibraltar for hundreds of years, and if it comes to it, the British will send troops in to defend its citizens.

Giving Gibraltar back to Spain would also set a precedent which the Argentinians and that awful Kirchner woman would be all over. Both Spain and Argentina are using Gibraltar and the Falklands respectively as something to distract the citizens from A) Their poor Governments, and B) The economic woes in their countries. It's funny how these issues are resurfacing when Argentina's and Spain's economies have gone to the dogs.....

They can f*ck off and sort out their own shit.

Trev - the difference is that Gibraltar is part of mainland Spain. Like I said, I doubt that British people would take kindly to another country lording it over part of mainland UK. Look at it from their point of view.

Admittedly, the Spanish aren't exactly covering themselves in glory at the moment.

Countries get more nationalistic in tough economic times. If Spain's economy was going along merrily they wouldn't give the slightest f*ck about Gibraltar.

trev - http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1911769,00.html

and something to rile the spanish with - http://www.economist.com/node/1241339

Yeah, I mean, I'm all for acceding the return of former colonies but they had a sovereignty referendum and (due to the ex-pats being more nationalistic than the EDL) it was unequivocal that they wished to remain British.

This whole furore is simply to deflect the problems in wider Spain that Rajoy has caused and that are now endemic. They've absolutely no leg to stand on, from the stipulations placed in the Treaty of Utrecht.

It's not 'nice' that we've got a little corner of Spain, but let's face it - that's the way it has been for centuries and as a result, it IS an overseas British colony whether we like it or not.

having a colony for a few centuries or decades is neither here nor there. by that reasoning no colony should have gotten independence

there are bound to be complications with territorial waters, etc i guess. it all depends on the relative power of the two nations at the time. morality or rightness hardly comes into it

i guess maybe in a few decades the time may be ripe for spain. if the 2 nations survive that is

The One wrote:trev - http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1911769,00.html

Are you saying Spain and Europe was in golden economic times in 2009?

Henry wrote:

The One wrote:trev - http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1911769,00.html

Are you saying Spain and Europe was in golden economic times in 2009?

I think the point was that Gibraltar has been a thorny issue for decades. It hasn't just suddenly appeared since Spain's economic downturn.

Neil D wrote:

Henry wrote:

The One wrote:trev - http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1911769,00.html

Are you saying Spain and Europe was in golden economic times in 2009?

I think the point was that Gibraltar has been a thorny issue for decades.  It hasn't just suddenly appeared since Spain's economic downturn.

And the Spanish will probably continue to make it a thorny issue for decades. But it's a British territory. End of.

Yes, it's a power thing. Britain is the more powerful Country, so it will continue to keep the Falklands, and will continue to keep Gibraltar. Hong Kong was different. They could see China was on the verge of becoming a world power with a stronger military than the Uk's and pulled out before it got ugly and embarrassing.

Henry wrote:

Neil D wrote:

Henry wrote:

The One wrote:trev - http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1911769,00.html

Are you saying Spain and Europe was in golden economic times in 2009?

I think the point was that Gibraltar has been a thorny issue for decades.  It hasn't just suddenly appeared since Spain's economic downturn.

And the Spanish will probably continue to make it a thorny issue for decades. But it's a British territory. End of.

Yes, it's a power thing. Britain is the more powerful Country, so it will continue to keep the Falklands, and will continue to keep Gibraltar. Hong Kong was different. They could see China was on the verge of becoming a world power with a stronger military than the Uk's and pulled out before it got ugly and embarrassing.

And the lease had expired.

Neil D wrote:Nationalistic tub-thumping aside, it is part of mainland Spain.  It's not like it's some remote outcrop that nobody cares about.

It must be quite humiliating for the Spanish for the UK to maintain an unwanted presence in their country.  Imagine if another country had sovereignty over, say, Cornwall.  I don't think people in the UK would take kindly to it.

You going to give back the part of mainland Ireland you have an unwanted presence in too?

And I think you'll find that around 60% of Hong Kong citizens thought life was better when the British were in charge. Simply because so many mainland Chinese citizens are now coming there for Hong Kong's superior hospitals, and it's easy for mainland Chinese to come to Hong Kong, whilst it remains relatively hard for people from Hong Kong to come to the mainland.

.

Henry wrote:And I think you'll find that around 60% of Hong Kong citizens thought life was better when the British were in charge. Simply because so many mainland Chinese citizens are now coming there for Hong Kong's superior hospitals, and it's easy for mainland Chinese to come to Hong Kong, whilst it remains relatively hard for people from Hong Kong to come to the mainland.

i am sure 60% of british citizens would be happier with the germans in charge, but that does not justify colonisation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjPnbwdYbrA

hong kong would probably be happiest as an independent nation, a la singapore

embee wrote:
You going to give back the part of mainland Ireland you have an unwanted presence in too?

If it was up to me - hell yes.  

Particularly when I see "loyalists" throwing petrol bombs at policemen because they don't like the idea of some other people parading past them in silly fancy dress, just because the other people believe in a slightly different version of the same ludicrous fairy tale.

Bye bye, enjoy being Irish....

The One wrote:hong kong would probably be happiest as an independent nation, a la singapore

Definitely. As would Taiwan.

Brass Monkey wrote:Yeah, I mean, I'm all for acceding the return of former colonies but they had a sovereignty referendum and (due to the ex-pats being more nationalistic than the EDL) it was unequivocal that they wished to remain British.

This whole furore is simply to deflect the problems in wider Spain that Rajoy has caused and that are now endemic. They've absolutely no leg to stand on, from the stipulations placed in the Treaty of Utrecht.

It's not 'nice' that we've got a little corner of Spain, but let's face it - that's the way it has been for centuries and as a result, it IS an overseas British colony whether we like it or not.

I'd mainly agree. But there is a big lump of concrete the Gibs have dropped as an artificial reef to keep Spanish fishermen from plundering their zone. That is sort of a new bone of contention, not just the old crap recycled.

The One wrote:hong kong would probably be happiest as an independent nation, a la singapore

Yeah, but Singapore was thrown out of Malaysia.