England v New Zealand, 5xODI + 1xT20, 9-23 Jun, 2015

Brass Monkey wrote:

taipan wrote:Oh agreed. But Cook was not ever going to take on Jimmy, Broad, Prior and the rest.

Then he's a weak captain. We captaincy breeds weak tactics and a week mentality. Not the sort of captaincy you'd want in a bitter tussle.

But he is Giles Clark's plum and a very nice boy.

Re Tests - what about replacing chubby Ballance with Morgan ... worth a thought, especially as the two
(Root and Morgs) get on so well out in the middle.

I'd have - Cook (under sufferance) Hales, Bell, Root, Morgan, Stokes ...as the top 6.

Yorkist.

The only reason that I'd ever be picking Bell is the exceptionally slim hope he surprises us in the way he did two years ago in the same series. Otherwise he's consistently letting us down, as he has been for 85% of his career

Brass Monkey wrote:

tricycle wrote:Can't take anything away from the chase. That was brilliant. The number of 350+ innings that occur these days, and often the chasing team succumbs meekly.

The past world cup too saw huge totals and the team batting first often cruise to victory. But 350s are becoming far too common imo. Maybe it's just a personal case of too much cricket....

I'm with you, but I'm wondering more whether it's a dearth of ODI bowling talent? The likes of Trent Boult and Mitchell Starc, good ODI bowlers, show us that it's possible to keep runs tight / take wickets regularly.

Possibly. Hopefully it's that. Although the gap between being a Starc or Boult and being a Debasis Mohanty equivalent is definitely greatly diminished.

Brass Monkey wrote:The only reason that I'd ever be picking Bell is the exceptionally slim hope he surprises us in the way he did two years ago in the same series. Otherwise he's consistently letting us down, as he has been for 85% of his career

In some ways Root has taken over his role, more effectively. More effectively also beyond mere weight of runs, because he tends to lift the team, not lean on it nervously for support.

Brass Monkey wrote:

tricycle wrote:Can't take anything away from the chase. That was brilliant. The number of 350+ innings that occur these days, and often the chasing team succumbs meekly.

The past world cup too saw huge totals and the team batting first often cruise to victory. But 350s are becoming far too common imo. Maybe it's just a personal case of too much cricket....

I'm with you, but I'm wondering more whether it's a dearth of ODI bowling talent? The likes of Trent Boult and Mitchell Starc, good ODI bowlers, show us that it's possible to keep runs tight / take wickets regularly.

I think that's a big factor. Faulkner, as well, is a brilliant death bowler. SA have an excellent attack, but it's more Test-centric, I'd say.

Looking around the rest of the sides, and it's buffet o'clock.

Faulkner is especially good at that strange mystery ball that nearly every other bowler hasn't heard of - I think they call it the yore kerr or something. A bit too new fangled for me. Give me a slower ball bouncer any day of the week.

PeterCS wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:The only reason that I'd ever be picking Bell is the exceptionally slim hope he surprises us in the way he did two years ago in the same series. Otherwise he's consistently letting us down, as he has been for 85% of his career

In some ways Root has taken over his role, more effectively. More effectively also beyond mere weight of runs, because he tends to lift the team, not lean on it nervously for support.

Yeah, Root's just such an energiser, seems to make things happen at the crease even though he's not a power hitter as such. He's becoming the increasingly rare master of all formats of the game.

Bell has all the talent in the world but has never quite been able to impose himself on a game often enough. He's just not a momentum changer, even though he's had a couple of exceptional years in Test cricket when he's hit top form - when things aren't going for him it's so easy to predict the tame dismissal. Averaging mid-40s in Tests is half decent but he could have been so much more, could have been the English player of his generation.

Dello wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:

tricycle wrote:Can't take anything away from the chase. That was brilliant. The number of 350+ innings that occur these days, and often the chasing team succumbs meekly.

The past world cup too saw huge totals and the team batting first often cruise to victory. But 350s are becoming far too common imo. Maybe it's just a personal case of too much cricket....

I'm with you, but I'm wondering more whether it's a dearth of ODI bowling talent? The likes of Trent Boult and Mitchell Starc, good ODI bowlers, show us that it's possible to keep runs tight / take wickets regularly.

I think that's a big factor. Faulkner, as well, is a brilliant death bowler. SA have an excellent attack, but it's more Test-centric, I'd say.

Looking around the rest of the sides, and it's buffet o'clock.

Aye, I said as much about the SA attack before the WC. But for some reason people seem to think Steyn and Philander are good ODI bowlers.

There's no excuse for someone of Steyn's class for not being able to adapt his game to any format.

taipan wrote:

Dello wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:

tricycle wrote:Can't take anything away from the chase. That was brilliant. The number of 350+ innings that occur these days, and often the chasing team succumbs meekly.

The past world cup too saw huge totals and the team batting first often cruise to victory. But 350s are becoming far too common imo. Maybe it's just a personal case of too much cricket....

I'm with you, but I'm wondering more whether it's a dearth of ODI bowling talent? The likes of Trent Boult and Mitchell Starc, good ODI bowlers, show us that it's possible to keep runs tight / take wickets regularly.

I think that's a big factor. Faulkner, as well, is a brilliant death bowler. SA have an excellent attack, but it's more Test-centric, I'd say.

Looking around the rest of the sides, and it's buffet o'clock.

Aye, I said as much about the SA attack before the WC. But for some reason people seem to think Steyn and Philander are good ODI bowlers.

But the trade off is you can win ODIs in the first 20 overs with a devastating new ball spell, which Steyn and company are capable of on occasion.

England T20 squad: Eoin Morgan (capt), Sam Billings, Jos Buttler (wk), Steven Finn, Alex Hales, Adil Rashid, Joe Root, Jason Roy, Ben Stokes, Reece Topley, James Vince, David Willey, Mark Wood

Topley stands out because he's only featured once for Essex in FC cricket this season. I'd assumed he was drifting away into nothingness.

He's played a couple of T20s for them this season (though not pulled up any trees).

I know he was called up to bowl in the nets at the ODI side recently, to help them line up left arm seamers. Perhaps he was bloody impressive. Or the bowling well is bone dry. Probably that.

Just what we're crying out for - a 78mph seamer. Hallelujah!

beamer wrote:There's no excuse for someone of Steyn's class for not being able to adapt his game to any format.

That is one of the more idiotic comments I have heard on this board. Steyn is without doubt the outstanding fast test bowler of the past 20 years. The skills he brings to the longer format are not necessarily compatible to those needed for the shorter form.

Dello wrote:

taipan wrote:

Dello wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:

tricycle wrote:Can't take anything away from the chase. That was brilliant. The number of 350+ innings that occur these days, and often the chasing team succumbs meekly.

The past world cup too saw huge totals and the team batting first often cruise to victory. But 350s are becoming far too common imo. Maybe it's just a personal case of too much cricket....

I'm with you, but I'm wondering more whether it's a dearth of ODI bowling talent? The likes of Trent Boult and Mitchell Starc, good ODI bowlers, show us that it's possible to keep runs tight / take wickets regularly.

I think that's a big factor. Faulkner, as well, is a brilliant death bowler. SA have an excellent attack, but it's more Test-centric, I'd say.

Looking around the rest of the sides, and it's buffet o'clock.

Aye, I said as much about the SA attack before the WC. But for some reason people seem to think Steyn and Philander are good ODI bowlers.

But the trade off is you can win ODIs in the first 20 overs with a devastating new ball spell, which Steyn and company are capable of on occasion.

Aye, on occasion. But the SA brains trust seemed to think he could take wickets up front in 2/3 overs, come back on to break a partnership in the middle overs, bowl the power play overs, and then come back to bowl two death overs.

taipan wrote:

beamer wrote:There's no excuse for someone of Steyn's class for not being able to adapt his game to any format.

That is one of the more idiotic comments I have heard on this board.

Thanks, twathead

Said twat also wrote:Steyn is without doubt the outstanding fast test bowler of the past 20 years. The skills he brings to the longer format are not necessarily compatible to those needed for the shorter form.

Well, maybe to be a true great in the 21st century you need to be adaptable to all three forms.

beamer wrote:

taipan wrote:

beamer wrote:There's no excuse for someone of Steyn's class for not being able to adapt his game to any format.

That is one of the more idiotic comments I have heard on this board.

Thanks, twathead  

Said twat also wrote:Steyn is without doubt the outstanding fast test bowler of the past 20 years. The skills he brings to the longer format are not necessarily compatible to those needed for the shorter form.

Well, maybe to be a true great in the 21st century you need to be adaptable to all three forms.

For the Y gen maybe. I am quite content for Steyn to be an all time great test bowler.

Basil wrote:Just what we're crying out for - a 78mph seamer. Hallelujah!

He's actually getting it down at around 85mph tonight! Perhaps I was confusing him with David Masters - an easy mistake to make.

Basil wrote:

Basil wrote:Just what we're crying out for - a 78mph seamer. Hallelujah!

He's actually getting it down at around 85mph tonight! Perhaps I was confusing him with David Masters - an easy mistake to make.

Topley was quick when he bowled alongside Jamie Overton for the U19s - they looked a right handful in the making.

But then he immediately dobbered up as soon as he made the Essex team. So he's got it in him to bend his back. Or he used to.

Dello wrote:

Basil wrote:

Basil wrote:Just what we're crying out for - a 78mph seamer. Hallelujah!

He's actually getting it down at around 85mph tonight! Perhaps I was confusing him with David Masters - an easy mistake to make.

Topley was quick when he bowled alongside Jamie Overton for the U19s - they looked a right handful in the making.

But then he immediately dobbered up as soon as he made the Essex team. So he's got it in him to bend his back. Or he used to.

What's with the mullet though? Is that the look for southern trendies these days?

Don't lump Essex in with the rest of developed world.

Dello wrote:England T20 squad: Eoin Morgan (capt), Sam Billings, Jos Buttler (wk), Steven Finn, Alex Hales, Adil Rashid, Joe Root, Jason Roy, Ben Stokes, Reece Topley, James Vince, David Willey, Mark Wood

Topley stands out because he's only featured once for Essex in FC cricket this season. I'd assumed he was drifting away into nothingness.

He's played a couple of T20s for them this season (though not pulled up any trees).

I know he was called up to bowl in the nets at the ODI side recently, to help them line up left arm seamers. Perhaps he was bloody impressive. Or the bowling well is bone dry. Probably that.

Reece Dobley has been injured for most of the season but had one good game on Sky where he dobbed a few out with the keeper up. Get him in - his sleeve tattoo is coming on lovely

Dello wrote:Don't lump Essex in with the rest of developed world.

Corrected so as not to be too generous to Chavland

Brass Monkey wrote:Faulkner is especially good at that strange mystery ball that nearly every other bowler hasn't heard of - I think they call it the yore kerr or something. A bit too new fangled for me. Give me a slower ball bouncer any day of the week.

its not just yorkers. faulkner takes a lot of wickets with his slower ball. once the batsmen learn to pick it hell be canon fodder

Ethics? The Gall! wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:Faulkner is especially good at that strange mystery ball that nearly every other bowler hasn't heard of - I think they call it the yore kerr or something. A bit too new fangled for me. Give me a slower ball bouncer any day of the week.

its not just yorkers.  faulkner takes a lot of wickets with his slower ball.  once the batsmen learn to pick it hell be canon fodder

Yeah his slower ball is excellent as well. He just braves it and mainly bowls full and usually reaps the rewards rewards. From a distance, he seems to relish it as well