Lousy preparation = first Home Ashes loss since 86-87?

Skully is a god damn sage. Played sir...

JKLever wrote:Skully is a god damn sage. Played sir...

I feel like chanting "Are you Australia in disguise?" at our players.

JKLever wrote:Bollocks Skully. Our opening pace bowling average 34+

We have one world class batsman who is in no kind of form.

As Dellboy said, we won't take 20 wickets once all tour.

The biggest surprise is that this morning we're going to do exactly the opposite for the 4th time in as many matches

Yup, utterly Bizarre.

I still don't think Aus are as bad as they look atm, we just got on a bit of a roll

JKLever wrote:Yup, utterly Bizarre.

I still don't think Aus are as bad as they look atm, we just got on a bit of a roll

You go anywhere near our selectors with an attitude like that and I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll....

(can't actually think how to finish that.)

Is this 1989 in reverse? Australia turned up that time to face an England in disarray after the "summer of the four captains" (or was it five?) but it was OK, we always beat Australia (or at least to someone who first watched cricket in 1985 we did). An evenly matched series between two ordinary sides, or so it appeared. The rest is history, the 4-0 scoreline flattered England, Australia were on their way to the top and England would bump along the bottom with only the occasional moment of hope for another decade.

Another parallel is perhaps the West Indies' visit to England in 2000 - the moment when the decline of a once-great side moved from mediocrity into complete capitulation, as they went from a level series to being blown away in the last two Tests. They haven't really recovered since. Can't see Australia plumbing those depths for an extended spell though, it's good to watch them being crap but not sure Test cricket can survive having an abject Australian side for a decade or so, will the public still support it in the same way?

skully wrote:We have a Forum 5 group together for Day 1 of the 5th Test. Lordy I hope the series is still alive at that point.

It could easy still be 0-0.

What ridiculous optimism this was.

JKLever wrote:Skully is a god damn sage. Played sir...

Thanks, but it doesn't make me feel any less depressed. But I am happy for all English supporters. I know what a grouse thing the Ashes-winning euphoria is.

skully wrote:I know what a grouse thing the Ashes-winning euphoria is.

So do I, but the memory is fading PDQ.

Aye. [sigh]

skully wrote:Aye. [sigh]

Imagine having never felt ashes euphoria until you were 20. You might begin to understand my relentless onslaught of photos if you can imagine that .

Zat wrote:

skully wrote:I know what a grouse thing the Ashes-winning euphoria is.

So do I, but the memory is fading PDQ.

I can imagine Aus fans got pretty damn complacent as they reeled off 8 series wins with an all time great side for most of them, a bit like the poms turn up and they get beat.

That certainly makes me take it all this in as it can change all very quickly...

beamer wrote:Is this 1989 in reverse? Australia turned up that time to face an England in disarray after the "summer of the four captains" (or was it five?) but it was OK, we always beat Australia (or at least to someone who first watched cricket in 1985 we did). An evenly matched series between two ordinary sides, or so it appeared. The rest is history, the 4-0 scoreline flattered England, Australia were on their way to the top and England would bump along the bottom with only the occasional moment of hope for another decade.

Can you imagine going through 1988-89 in the internet age? Dismal... you're right about just expecting to beat Aus in 1989. We also farqued up badly in selection in 89, panicking way too early. We dropped Chris Broad for Tim Curtis FFS. That's up there with replacing Hauritz with Doherty.

Then when you thought it couldn't get any worse, half of them decided to go on a rebel tour to Yarpland and the selectors were reduced to picking another random bunch of nobodies out of the county game.

Was that rock bottom for English cricket? We had our moments throughout the 90s, most of them against Australia, and there was that famous low point of being booed after losing at home to NZ in '99 before the great turnaround started under Nasser, but nothing matches 88-89 in terms of sheer hopelessness and scattergun selection. We were just fortunate that was the one year there ended up being no winter tour!

People would have though you mad if you had said just after the 1988 WI series that the WI would not have won in England for the next 23 years (and counting) OR that England would lose the next 8 Ashes series...

JKLever wrote:People would have though you mad if you had said just after the 1988 WI series that the WI would not have won in England for the next 23 years (and counting) OR that England would lose the next 8 Ashes series...

I sometimes find it easier to say "We lost 4 straight home series" in my head. It still sounds pretty bad, but not quite as bad as not winning anything for 18 years.

I never realised that was the last time WI won in England! Thinking about it we got a couple of surprising drawn series in '91 and '95 before their decline really kicked in. Took us until 2000 to actually reclaim the Wisden Trophy, which we've held ever since apart from a couple of months two years ago when they claimed a shock victory over there then for some reason agreed to put it at stake again in a two-match series in the freezing English early season!

JKLever wrote:

Zat wrote:

skully wrote:I know what a grouse thing the Ashes-winning euphoria is.

So do I, but the memory is fading PDQ.

I can imagine Aus fans got pretty damn complacent as they reeled off 8 series wins with an all time great side for most of them, a bit like the poms turn up and they get beat.

That certainly makes me take it all this in as it can change all very quickly...

Pretty sure many of us made repeated references to the dark days of the 80s on the old ABC and C4 forums. The fear for me when we were on top was of what has now transpired in the past 18 months.

I can't believe how organised England are these days.

You'd have to say that English cricket has the best setup going around at the moment. Sure, the County game still has its flaws, but around 2000 it seemed to be decided that making England the best team in the world should be the priority. We have so many development programs, performance programs, Lions programs, pace programs, spin programs, coaching programs, and school initiatives now.

We are also developing some very good player depth, and players on the fringes of the team are genuinely hungry and desperate to do well for England. That's something you couldn't say with confidence 15-20 years ago, when a call up for England was often treated as a pay bonus on top of their County pay cheque.

The only problem is that live cricket is on pay TV only. I hope that can be changed soon. At least for Ashes series.

Would be nice to have cricket on free TV, but as you know Trev - it's the Sky money which has allowed us to put the organisational set-up in place.

Henry wrote:
You'd have to say that English cricket has the best setup going around at the moment.

I think we're well prepared but imo the County System still has its flaws... though i think the top 4 or 5 sides could compete in the Sheffield Shield easily there is far too much dross lower down. The move to 2 division has improved the standard at the top for sure.

skully wrote:

PeterCS wrote:Skulls - you just hoped that a fact was right.

THe next Ashes is in Australia, and you are playing England.

As crook as Aus was in 86-87 I was still hopeful that we would compete. The series was over by Day 3 of T4. Gladstone Small FFS had just helped Beefy clean us up by an innings. The lowest ebb for Aus cricket in my near 40 years watching the Great Game.

Is that still the case given what we've seen in the last couple of series?

Henry wrote:I can't believe how organised England are these days.

You'd have to say that English cricket has the best setup going around at the moment. Sure, the County game still has its flaws, but around 2000 it seemed to be decided that making England the best team in the world should be the priority. We have so many development programs, performance programs, Lions programs, pace programs, spin programs, coaching programs, and school initiatives now.

We are also developing some very good player depth, and players on the fringes of the team are genuinely hungry and desperate to do well for England. That's something you couldn't say with confidence 15-20 years ago, when a call up for England was often treated as a pay bonus on top of their County pay cheque.

The only problem is that live cricket is on pay TV only. I hope that can be changed soon. At least for Ashes series.

You still think this is true?

beamer wrote:

skully wrote:

PeterCS wrote:Skulls - you just hoped that a fact was right.

THe next Ashes is in Australia, and you are playing England.

As crook as Aus was in 86-87 I was still hopeful that we would compete. The series was over by Day 3 of T4. Gladstone Small FFS had just helped Beefy clean us up by an innings. The lowest ebb for Aus cricket in my near 40 years watching the Great Game.

Is that still the case given what we've seen in the last couple of series?

I think 85-87 was the worst ... even the recent pain doesn't really compete. We couldn't beat anyone then, collapses were routine, for three years solidly. We were in decline after G Chappell, Marsh and Lillee all retired at once; the South African rebel tour in 1985 decimated the selection pool, and we were left with club cricketers and a few babies.

Yeah, guess in the mid to late 80s the Ashes was pretty much a wooden spoon contest. WI were dominant, Pakistan and India strong, NZ as good as they have ever been, SA were absent from official competition and SL don't really count as they were newcomer minnows who had played very few Tests at that stage.