Post war england sides

Just finished a book by Peter Cox "Sixty summers - English cricket since world war II"
Its a pretty good read though each year only gets a couple of pages so its not too detailed. He ends the book with a statistics section that includes his chosen England XI's for every 5 year period from 1946 -2005, They comprise the following teams:
1946-50:
Hutton, Washbrook, Edrich, Compton, Simpson, Bailey, Yardley, Evans, Bedser, Wright, Hollies

1951-55:
Hutton,Simpson, May, Compton, Graveney, Bailey, Evans, Wardle, Tyson, Bedser, Statham

1956-1960:
Cowdrey, Richardson, May, Graveney, Barrington, Bailey, Evans, Trueman, Lock, Laker, Statham

1961-65:
Boycott, Edrich, Dexter, Cowdrey, Barrington, Parfitt, Parks, Titmus, Allen, Trueman, Statham

1966-70:
Boycott, Luckhurst, Edrich, Barrington, Graveney, D'Oliveira, Illingworth, Knott, Snow, Brown, Underwood

1971-75:
Boycott, Amiss, Edrich, Fletcher, Denness, Greig, Knott, Old, Snow, Arnold, Underwood

1976-80:
Boycott, Gooch, Brearley, Gower, Randall, Botham, Miller, Taylor, Underwood, Willis, Hendrick

1981-85:
Gooch, Robinson, Gower, Gatting, Lamb, Botham, Taylor, Edmonds, Emburey, Willis, Cowans

1986-90:
Gooch, Broad, Gatting, Gower, Lamb, Smith, Russell, Foster, Dilley, Small, Fraser

1991-1995:
Gooch, Atherton, Stewart, Smith, Thorpe, Hick, Russell, Lewis, DeFreitas, Malcom, Tufnell

1996-2000:
Atherton, Stewart, Hussain, Thorpe, Rampakash, Crawley, Cork, Croft, Caddick, Gough, Fraser

2001-2005:
Trescothick, Vaughan, Butcher, Hussain, Thorpe, Stewart, Flintoff, Giles, Caddick, Hoggard, Harmison

Should point out he used a minimum qualification of a player appearing in 25% of tests played in each period AND appearing in 3 different series, also if anyone tries looking up the stats he starts each 5 year period from the summer, so for example he picked his sides for the 1996-2000 side using the sri lanka 2001 winter tour as part of the 1996-2000 year statistics.

Anyway his lists got me thinking, 1) Did he leave anyone obvious out?, 2) Which would be the strongest of those teams if they could actually play one another? and what would be Englands combined best XI for the entire period?

1990's onward...taypoc.

What does TAYPOC mean? While I'm at it, what does FIGJAM mean?

Excellent thread by the way, Gildas.

Stoopid chick.

Gooch and Boycott the only players in four sides. I doubt he would miss anyone obvious out if it's going to be published. He would have researched thoroughly.

There are a lot of strong sides there. 76-80 is probably the best balanced. Top captain (Brearley), top allrounder (Botham), top openers (Gooch and Boycott), top quicks (Willis and Botham), top accurate, economy bowler (Hendrick), top keeper (Taylor), top middle order bat (Gower) and top spinner (Underwood).

Just top allround, really.

Invader Zim wrote:Stoopid chick.

Well? What do they mean?

TAYPOLLL, FFS!

WTF is Goochie doing in the 76-80 side?

He didn't do an awful lot in that period but perhaps the author is just taking whole careers and choosing the best players that were playing in that period, regardless of what they'd achieved at that point.

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:He didn't do an awful lot in that period but perhaps the author is just taking whole careers and choosing the best players that were playing in that period, regardless of what they'd achieved at that point.

Seems likely.

It's pretty embarassing that someone with a bowling average of 40 gets into our 2001-2005 team.

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:He didn't do an awful lot in that period but perhaps the author is just taking whole careers and choosing the best players that were playing in that period, regardless of what they'd achieved at that point.

but then Willis would be in the 71-75 side on that basis.

Btw, shit hot team

1951-55:
Hutton,Simpson, May, Compton, Graveney, Bailey, Evans, Wardle, Tyson, Bedser, Statham

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:He didn't do an awful lot in that period but perhaps the author is just taking whole careers and choosing the best players that were playing in that period, regardless of what they'd achieved at that point.

I think he tried to pick the sides jsut based on those timescales. I have to admit that i was surprised by gooch's inclusion in either of the late 70's or early 80's teaams, however purely on stats he walks into the 76-80 side. He scored over 1800 runs @ 39.65, only boycott (52.83) and Gower (45.95) had a higher average and were eligable (amiss, Edrich and Radley all had a better average but only played 31 innings between them).

vilkrang wrote:

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:He didn't do an awful lot in that period but perhaps the author is just taking whole careers and choosing the best players that were playing in that period, regardless of what they'd achieved at that point.

Seems likely.

It's pretty embarassing that someone with a bowling average of 40 gets into our 2001-2005 team.

You think thats bad he leaves a spinner out of the 86-90 side on the basis that the best one is Emburey with 49 wickets@49.33

Gildas wrote:

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:He didn't do an awful lot in that period but perhaps the author is just taking whole careers and choosing the best players that were playing in that period, regardless of what they'd achieved at that point.

I think he tried to pick the sides jsut based on those timescales. I have to admit that i was surprised by gooch's inclusion in either of the late 70's or early 80's teaams, however purely on stats he walks into the 76-80 side. He scored over 1800 runs @ 39.65, only boycott (52.83) and Gower (45.95) had a higher average and were eligable (amiss, Edrich and Radley all had a better average but only played 31 innings between them).

I'm surprised Gooch averaged nearly 40 in that period because he had a long absence after the 1975 Ashes. Can't have played many tests either in that era...

JKLever wrote:

Gildas wrote:

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:He didn't do an awful lot in that period but perhaps the author is just taking whole careers and choosing the best players that were playing in that period, regardless of what they'd achieved at that point.

I think he tried to pick the sides jsut based on those timescales. I have to admit that i was surprised by gooch's inclusion in either of the late 70's or early 80's teaams, however purely on stats he walks into the 76-80 side. He scored over 1800 runs @ 39.65, only boycott (52.83) and Gower (45.95) had a higher average and were eligable (amiss, Edrich and Radley all had a better average but only played 31 innings between them).

I'm surprised Gooch averaged nearly 40 in that period because he had a long absence after the 1975 Ashes. Can't have played many tests either in that era...

Just checked with the good people at cric info and Gooch played 28 tests in that period,Got back into the side in 78, and missed only 1 test after that during the rest of the period.

Surprised really, because as a kid I remember his average during the 1985 Ashes was mid 30's.

81-82 must have been really poor.

JKLever wrote:Btw, shit hot team

1951-55:
Hutton,Simpson, May, Compton, Graveney, Bailey, Evans, Wardle, Tyson, Bedser, Statham

Freddie cant even get a game ...44 wickets at 22

Gooch didn't score his first Test century until 1980 v. the Windies at Lord's, though.

According to Jeremy Paxman on last night's "University Challenge" Goochie scored a century on his Test debut against Australia in 1993 :!:
He was obviously confusing him with another Graham. as we all know GAG's Test debut against Oz was somewhat less than auspicious

Players missed out - Rahman Subba Row who played between 1958-61 scoring centuries in his first and last Tests against Australia.

JKLever wrote:WTF is Goochie doing in the 76-80 side?

Not a lot of competition IIRC. Dennis Amiss had a nightmare against Aussie, and was batting down the order in the two tests he played agaianst them over here that Summer.

Barry Wood played a handful of tests to little effect. John Edrich was gone for good after the third test against the Windies in 1976.

Gildas wrote:
2) Which would be the strongest of those teams if they could actually play one another?


and what would be Englands combined best XI for the entire period?

This mob. 1951-55:
Hutton,Simpson, May, Compton, Graveney, Bailey, Evans, Wardle, Tyson, Bedser, Statham

Three all-time great England batters,
arguably our best ever keeper,
Very accurate pace attack: our best ever swinger, plus express pace, plus accurate pace, and a good stock bowler who could take wickets too
Very good spinner.

Best overall since the thirties:

Hutton (c)
Boycott
Barrington
Compton
May
Dexter
Botham
Knott (w)
Trueman
Laker
Bedser

Hutton (c)
Boycott
Barrington
Compton
May
Dexter
Botham
Knott (w)
Trueman
Laker
Bedser

Short a bowler I think. There are better out and out bowlers than Botham so if you have to pick him it is really as a batsman ie at 6.

I would swap Dexter for Statham or maybe Snow.

Barrington bowled a bit as did Lord Ted

think that either snow or tyson should be included...extra pace and intimidation factor

bedser and botham were of similar speed, with the former a better bowler

JKLever wrote:WTF is Goochie doing in the 76-80 side?

You might say the same about the 81-85 side as Gooch got a 3 year ban for captaining a rebel tour to South Africa in 1982. He played no Test cricket after the Indian tour of 1981-2 until the Ashes series of 1985. his place was largely taken by the then Lancashire opener, Graeme Fowler, who played all his Test cricket in Gooch's absence from 1982-5 and scored a bruising century against the might of the Windies four-pronged pace attack at Lord's in 1984 and a double-century (along with Mike Gatting) in his penultimate Test against India at Madras in 1984-5. Immediately Gooch's sentence was up Fowler, who had loyally served his county and country without a thought of pocketing the rand, was packed off with scarcely a word of thanks.

It is noteworthy however that although Gooch's Test career lasted almost two decades from 1975 to 1994-5 six of those years were blank in two spells of three - the first from 1975-8 due to non-selection (apart from a couple of ODIs against the Windies in 1976 when Derek Randall was preferred to him for the Indian tour of 1976-7 and the Centenary Test) and 1982-5 due to a Test ban yet he still managed to become England's most prolific Test runscorer.