The ljh is the pits of Oz History thread

[horace]

he always used the dog whistle on race relations to promote division between people
he sent the dogs into the wharves in the Patrick dispute
he supported nukeyville
he did sfa for aboriginal people until he saw political advantage
he repeatedly lied lied lied
loved waving the fistful of $s at election time to con the Australian people
he presided over the demise of manufacturing industry
he played the kids overboard tune to win an election
he loathed working class people and organised labour
he was a climate change denier
he supported the Iraq war and perpetrated the weapons pf mass destruction rubbish
supported the dire shrub jnr to the hilt
he suffered the most embarassing political defeat in Oz history losing his own seat in the process (such was the contempt that his own electorate had for him)

he appointed BB as Minister for Aged Care (for skully's benefit)

he did one good thing - initiated the guns buy back scheme...but of course disgraced himeself in the process by being an abject coward at various rallies.

Discuss

[PeterCS]

This is not going to go down well with the righteous right ...


And after all, Oz DID win those 2006/07 Ashes ...

[horace]

but Oz cricket did commence its downfall on the ljh watch...

also the lying little rodent further divided the cricket world with his mere nomination for an ICC job....as we all know he would have been a disaster and his failure to obtain the necessary support has prolly been the one good news story in international cricket over the past decade

[horace]

so where are the forum's ljh pawnd lapdogs - Big Dog, Embee, Skully and the little chichuaua - RD - Time to come running yapping and slathering over the dross that is the memory of ljh

[JGK]

The GST is a good thing.

As is standardised daylight saving (including the extension of it in NSW).

[JGK]

On top of that he loves cricket and St George.

[embee]

Andrew Hilditch

[horace]

The GST is a good thing.

As is standardised daylight saving (including the extension of it in NSW).

but put the country half a century behind...failed to fix the Bills on daylight saving...is the GST a good thing...the black economy has boomed

[horace]

Mind you I would have forgivenn ljh just about anything had he had the sense to ensure the States implemented a national registration system for bicycles...this would help deal with the dangers of 'cyclopaths'

[Bradman]

Guns and not getting daylight saving. Pretty farking slim for ten years work. And i guarantee if the ALP had been in power in the aftermath of Port Arthur he would've been marching with gun nuts.

[Paul Keating]

$100 000 tertiary degrees

Destroyed infrastructure

Took the knife to health

[horace]

sageness from PM Keating

qm3 - dont tell me you are opposed to daylight savings

[Mick Sawyer]

the black economy has boomed

Taxing the black economy is one of the strengths of the GST in my view. Tax is paid on money spent that dodged mainstream taxation.

[horace]

not when you are offered cash discounts

[Mick Sawyer]

not when you are offered cash discounts

Talk me through that one h

[Hass]

Even if someone pays cash, some of that money will get taxed by the GST eventually. Some of it will fall through the cracks forever lost to the endless loop of the black economy, but a lot of it will end up going to a legitimate business at some stage and the taxman will ultimately win.

[horace]

Even if someone pays cash, some of that money will get taxed by the GST eventually. Some of it will fall through the cracks forever lost to the endless loop of the black economy, but a lot of it will end up going to a legitimate business at some stage and the taxman will ultimately win.

agree in part - purchased inputs used by a sparky have a gst element...but his labour when paid for in cash will not..

[embee]

Tradies have always done jobs at a discount for cash

Homeowners object to paying GST so are more likely to ask a tradie to do a job at a discount for cash payment.

The tradie either does the job at a discount and doesnt charge GST or his tax component or misses out on the job (which goes to a tradie that will give a discount) . When he does give the discount he doesnt include the sale in either his GST return (10% lost) or his tax return (0% to 46.5% lost)

This could happen before GST but is more widespread after

[Zat]

The 'first home buyers bonus', which was part of the GST introductory package, and has been boosted at various times since, has helped lay the foundations for what will be a spectacular crash in Aus property prices one day.

[Mick Sawyer]

purchased inputs used by a sparky have a gst element...but his labour when paid for in cash will not

Purchased inputs used to have sales tax H so that's not necessarily a win for GST. Cash jobs have always been part of the landscape. No tax was ever going to be paid by the goods/service provider.

Where the GST wins in the black economy is the fact that black money gets spent on non-traceables. (None of embee's cash economy operatives will ever get done on an asset betterment assessment). The spend it in restaurants, embee's office, at the racetrack, the pub, cosmetic surgeons, K Mart & DJs

[embee]

...and the tattoo parlor

[horace]

...and the tattoo parlor

hehehe...is that asset betterment or advanced depreciation?

[Hass]

he always used the dog whistle on race relations to promote division between people

Agreed, although I take issue with the word always. Howard was not above using racial division for political advantage. Having said that, this meme is overhyped - a lot of the time it was just the left projecting its own vision of Howard onto every comment he made.

he sent the dogs into the wharves in the Patrick dispute

One of Howard's greatest achievements was fixing up the waterfront. The MUA was the type of organisation that gave unions a bad name. I'm not sure I'd have sent the dogs in myself - it didn't help PR - but it showed he was serious and hellbent on reforming the waterfront.

he supported nukeyville

I'm not sure what nukeyville refers to.

he did sfa for aboriginal people until he saw political advantage

Howard definitely treated Aboriginal affairs as though it was an inconvenience and you could tell he just wished it would go away. But I don't believe he ever held any malice towards the Aboriginal people and was genuine in his efforts when he did try to tackle Aboriginal issues. Still, his government gets a FAIL on this front.

he repeatedly lied lied lied

I'm shocked, shocked to find lying going on in Australian politics. Although Howard did make it an artform.

loved waving the fistful of $s at election time to con the Australian people

Agree. It was irresponsible porkbarrelling.

he presided over the demise of manufacturing industry

I fail to see how Australian manufacturing can compete with Asia without hefty tariffs. Tarrifs are ultimately self-defeating - I thought this was agreed on back in Hawke's day.

he played the kids overboard tune to win an election

Certainly not honourable. Howard went in hard on little information. When it turned out to be erroneous he just stuck to his guns ie. lied. Very grubby politics, but he'd have won the election anyway.

he loathed working class people and organised labour

He certainly loathed organised labour - so much so that it proved to be his downfall. I don't think he hated working class people - he seemed to have a better rapport with them than many top Labor MPs. He just didn't understand them as well as he thought, otherwise he would never have tried on something like Workchoices.

he was a climate change denier

We'd have an ETS today had John Howard been re-elected in 2007.

he supported the Iraq war and perpetrated the weapons pf mass destruction rubbish
supported the dire shrub jnr to the hilt

As a supporter (or at least non-opponent) of the war I obviously don't see this as a negative. If you think Beazley would have acted any differently you are kidding yourself. He could have shown more balls on standing up to Yanks on stuff like David Hicks though.

he suffered the most embarassing political defeat in Oz history losing his own seat in the process (such was the contempt that his own electorate had for him)

Oh Please! This is utter bulltwang. Howard's seat suffered many demographic shifts, which meant it was very much a marginal seat come the 2007 election. Any swing against his government was going to put it in the firing line. It was a testament to his political courage and/or stubborness that he didn't move to a safer seat (as a party leader would normally do in such circumstances). His overall approval rating was actually quite high for a PM about to be ousted - it was certainly higher than Keating's in 1996.

The most embarrasing political defeat in Australian history would have to go to Gough Whitlam in 1975, when his party lost the 2PP by 10 points and was reduced to 36 seats. Of course, Gough retained his seat - but the Labor Party would have to have been wiped out for him to lose Werriwa. For sure, there were exceptional circumstances that year, but it's the overall result that measures the magnitude of a defeat, not the leader's seat FFS. I'm sure it gave you great delight to see Howard lose his seat, but let's keep things in proportion.

he appointed BB as Minister for Aged Care (for skully's benefit)

Agreed. Bishop was not a good minister.

he did one good thing - initiated the guns buy back scheme...but of course disgraced himeself in the process by being an abject coward at various rallies.

The guns buyback scheme was good, although it's practical value is probably overstated. I still think it was worth doing though.

As for being an abject coward... this is the kind of crap that gets spewed against Howard which makes me swallow my pride and defend the man. You can't just bash him for his true faults (of which there are many), you latch on to any and every criticism that takes your fancy. Howard received a very credible death threat ie. it wasn't just some weird crank. In that case I think it would be sensible to wear a vest. Howard refused to do so. His minders wouldn't let him go out until he put one on, so he did. How is that "disgracing himself"?

[embee]

How is that "disgracing himself"?

It gave horrie less to aim at ....

[horace]

hass - you are entitled to your above opinions....but I clearly disagree with manythe MUA has a proud history of improving conditions for wharfies and others...that is what they are there to do...the right to withdraw labour is fundamental...

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