Has Dravid had a greater contribution to Indian cricket.....

.....than Tendulkar?

Talent-wise, Tendulkar is ahead. But what is so admirable about Dravid is that he has forever remained the foot soldier- Always doing what the team needs him to do. Although he's within his rights to, he's never used his status in Indian cricket to make things more comfortable for himself. He's never allowed other, less senior players to do the tough jobs, like going in as a makeshift opening batsman, or keeping wicket.

You wouldn't be surprised if he drove the team bus to and from the ground if the regular driver got sick, or if he whipped out a tool kit and fixed some faulty plumbing in the change rooms.

What makes Dravid's feats in England even more special is that most of us had written him off about six months ago. He looked jumpy, the reflexes appeared slower, and there were some holes appearing in that rock-solid technique. But boy did he prove us all wrong. It's what true champions do.

On top of all of that, he's such an intelligent and articulate man. You just have to read his stunning foreword in Steve Waugh's autobiography to realise that.

SRT? Great, great player, and a good man. But you sense he KNOWS how special he is, and you sense he feels he's earnt the right to do whatever he wants in regards to Indian cricket. He'll announce that he's missing this test series, or that ODI series, but he fully expects someone to make way for him when he returns. It's dangerous when a player becomes bigger than the team, and is allowed to pick and choose which series he plays or misses, and what position he bats, regardless of the team situation. Just quietly, there were a few raised eyebrows when Dravid put his hand up to open, but SRT refused to move from number four to number three, with the less technically equipped Laxman being shunted up there instead.

No Journalist is brave enough to criticise SRT, but i'm sure deep down, a lot of people feel he damaged his reputation a little bit on this tour.

I would pay to watch Tendulkar bat in full flow, but when the chips are really down, i'd want Dravid in my team.

Personallly I feel that Laxman has played more pressure innings for India than SRT

I don't even know why this is debated. SRT is not the messiah, nor is he the 2nd greatest bastman after Bradman.

The only thing that lets Dravid down a little bit when it comes to assessing his place amongst the all-time greats is his relatively poor records against Australia and South Africa.

Plus his speed of scoring might be held against him

However his tour of Australia in what was it 2003/4 remains one of the greatest performances over an entire series from a foreign player.

Has Dravid had a greater contribution to Indian cricket than Tendulkar?

lol wut?

has stan mccabe had a greater contribution to australian cricket than bradman?

ask any indian cricketer who has entered the team in the last 15 years or any of the last 2-3 captains which player has helped their development the most or who has offered the most time and advice

i think the bell run-out incident kind of encapsulated how tendulkar stays behind the scenes but drives a lot of the team's thinking and strategies. and india has been pretty successful, save this last tour

but that's always been the tragedy of being tendulkar. as they say great men are judged by their failures, the good by their success. tendulkar led the team in performance for the last 3 years when sadly dravid seemed to have lost his mojo. but one bad tour and all the knives are out

Rubbish. It is not one bad tour, and the knives are out. His greatness and legacy has been in debate for years.

Of course he is a Great. One of theGgreatest of all time. He IMO is not the 2nd best of all time.

But yes, his contribution to Indian Cricket is greater than Dravids.

So why was SRT such a poor captain?

Has Dravid had a greater contribution to Indian cricket than Tendulkar?

Probably not, in terms of the overall package, given that there are millions of disciples who worship at the altar of SRT, and take anything even slightly negative about SRT as heresy. (Calling TO, Calling TO, I await your Pavlovian recation to confirm this...)

But without SRT, and the marketing value he has brought with him, Indian cricket may not be followed with quite the same alleged passion as it has today.

A better question might have been "Has Dravid made a greater on-field contribution to Indian cricket than Tendulkar?"

The One wrote:ask any indian cricketer who has entered the team in the last 15 years or any of the last 2-3 captains which player has helped their development the most or who has offered the most time and advice

i think the bell run-out incident kind of encapsulated how tendulkar stays behind the scenes but drives a lot of the team's thinking and strategies. and india has been pretty successful, save this last tour

but that's always been the tragedy of being tendulkar. as they say great men are judged by their failures, the good by their success. tendulkar led the team in performance for the last 3 years when sadly dravid seemed to have lost his mojo. but one bad tour and all the knives are out

I know that criticising Tendulkar is a bit taboo among cricket fans. Like he's beyond all criticism and the sun constantly shines out of his backside, and that criticising him is somehow criticising the entire Country of India. But why do you never see him sacrificing himself for the team in quite the same way that Dravid does? I can't imagine SRT putting his hand up to open in a test match, or keeping wicket when Dhoni decides to bowl.

don't get me wrong, I think SRT is a fantastic player and ambassador for the sport, but now and then you get the feeling he puts himself before the team a bit.

Zat wrote:"Has Dravid made a greater on-field contribution to Indian cricket than Tendulkar?"

err no

dravid was a king-kong great from about 2002-2006 (funnily enough mirroring ponting's hot streak) but has mostly struggled against good bowling outside that period

tendulkar has carried indian cricket from about 1992-93 onwards, having a major dip in form when he was mostly injured between 2003-2006

this is without the small matter of their respective odi records and tendulkar's massive influence on india's world cup campaigns

But why do non-Indian fans ask the question in the first place, TO?

Is it hatred or jealousy of SRT? I don't think it is.

Over the years on this forum alone, many non-Indian cricket supporters have said on many occassions that Laxman plays better innings or Dravid is better in pressure situations. Is this just a windup to get on your nerves? No I don't think it is. I honestly believe people have reservations about SRT.

Henry wrote:I know that criticising Tendulkar is a bit taboo among cricket fans. Like he's beyond all criticism and the sun constantly shines out of his backside, and that criticising him is somehow criticising the entire Country of India. But why do you never see him sacrificing himself for the team in quite the same way that Dravid does? I can't imagine SRT putting his hand up to open in a test match, or keeping wicket when Dhoni decides to bowl.

don't get me wrong, I think SRT is a fantastic player and ambassador for the sport, but now and then you get the feeling he puts himself before the team a bit.

well he can't keep since he never was a keeper, unlike dravid. dravid never did the amount of bowling tendulkar did either, everyone has different skills

dravid was made to open in an early stage of his career, decided to do some himself when he was captain and hence he is called up as a back-up. thats extremely commendable of him for sure, he is a pure team man. but i dont think many established middle order batsmen from any team ever go to open. dravid is quite the exception. you wont see ponting ever offering to open. you will never see kallis doing so, even though they are/were number 3s. hats off to dravid on that point

Bit SRT didn't even move up to number three. Laxman did, despite not really having the technique to cope with England's bowlers bowling with the new ball on slightly helpful pitches.

How often has SRT gone into bat at three when his team needed him?

I have seen him drop himself to six before on one infamous occassion.

Paul Keating wrote:But why do non-Indian fans ask the question in the first place, TO?

Is it hatred or jealousy of SRT? I don't think it is.

Over the years on this forum alone, many non-Indian cricket supporters have said on many occassions that Laxman plays better innings or Dravid is better in pressure situations. Is this just a windup to get on your nerves? No I don't think it is. I honestly believe people have reservations about SRT.

fair enough. everyone is entitled to their views. no problem with that at all. i think we can all disagree on most cricketing matters, especially ones on 'the greatest', 'the best', etc

i thought this was just a debate. my views against yours, etc. though i can understand a lot of people getting irritated with the tendulkar propaganda mouthed by lots of media outlets, though tendulkar himself at most times has nothing to do with it. like the 100th 100. i dont think tendulkar himself ever mentioned it. but almost every single article before and during the series kept on harping about it

Henry wrote:Bit SRT didn't even move up to number three. Laxman did, despite not really having the technique to cope with England's bowlers bowling with the new ball on slightly helpful pitches.

well unless we know tendulkar refused its a bit of a moot point. the team decides what is its best strategy to get the maximum score on board as well. its a trade off between deciding if tendulkar-laxman will average more runs than laxman-tendulkar

One of our papersran a story that SRT had met with the manufacturers of Hawkeye while over here and came away convinced about the accuracy of the technology and that he intended to say so to the BCCI.

Fair enough, but it raises suspicions that this is a case of the tail wagging the dog, which i suggest is not healthy for Indian cricket.

Basil wrote:One of our papersran a story that SRT had met with the manufacturers of Hawkeye while over here and came away convinced about the accuracy of the technology and that he intended to say so to the BCCI.

Fair enough, but it raises suspicions that this is a case of the tail wagging the dog, which i suggest is not healthy for Indian cricket.

[TO] Are you saying SRT is a tail? Are you implying he is a monkey?[TO]

No. He has not made a greater contribution to Indian cricket. That's nothing to his detriment. It is simply that it would be harder to make a greater contribution to any cricket team than Tendulkar has to his. This must be put into a proper context, surely?

He's played over 180 Tests, been going for 22+ years from a non-drinking age. That is utterly astounding. Especially considering in that period that he's been talked of amongst the greatest in the world - Lara & Tendulkar, Waugh & Tendulkar, Ponting & Tendulkar, Kallis & Tendulkar and so forth. An utterly stunning career that aided the growth of popularity of the sport of a massive nation. He can claim a sizeable proportion of that in relative terms to his team-mates. That's just the way it is.

Dravid has played many decent pressure innings, possibly more than Tendulkar. He is more the team man. But that's not to the detriment of Tendu, he's played an inordinate amount of pressure knock. In that regard Tendulkar could be called more 'normal' in percentages. Still played plenty, though.

What the Monkeh said, for me.

Henry wrote:The only thing that lets Dravid down a little bit when it comes to assessing his place amongst the all-time greats is his relatively poor records against Australia

I would dispute this. His average is 41 which isn't bad and includes two of the all-time classic innings of our time, the one man show at Adelaide and the epic partnership with VVS to win after following-on.

Its only his failure to cash in against the recent Aus teams (and in the ICC World XI jamboree) that count against him. Almost an exact opposite of Gavaskar who everyone says did well against the great Windies teams, but actually only cashed in against them before the fast bowlers emerged or during Packer, and flopped against them when they were strong.

If you take the great Australian team, starting with the Windies 1995 series and ending with the 5-0 over England then only Lara and Tendulkar made more runs against Aus than him.

Runs vs Aus 1995-2007

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Name	Matches	Runs	Average	100	50
Brian Lara	25	2349	51.06	8	8
Sachin Tendulkar	16	1491	55.22	5	7
Rahul Dravid	18	1480	51.03	2	8
VVS Laxman	16	1457	52.03	4	6
Nasser Hussain	19	1397	39.91	2	10
Mark Butcher	20	1287	33.00	3	4
Alec Stewart	20	1135	33.38	1	8
Jacques Kallis	15	1105	36.83	3	5
Marcus Trescothick	15	1013	33.76	0	7
Kevin Pietersen	10	963	53.50	2	6
Michael Vaughan	10	959	47.95	4	1
Herschelle Gibbs	15	947	31.56	1	6
Nathan Astle	14	930	38.75	1	5
Saurav Ganguly	16	844	32.46	1	4
Gary Kirsten	12	798	34.69	2	4
Shivnarine Chanderpaul	12	768	34.90	2	4
Virender Sehwag	8	763	50.86	2	2
Mark Ramprakash	10	749	41.61	1	4
Chris Cairns	9	687	42.93	1	5
Sherwin Campbell	15	681	24.32	2	3
Stephen Fleming	14	680	25.18	1	6

Well, if you're saying what I'm saying Growls, I'm going to correct you:

'..sport of a..'

'..amount of pressure knock.'

get it right!

His innings against Aus at Adelaide wasn't a one man show. Laxman scored 140 odd and they shared another huge partnership. Adelaide is also the flattest pitch probably in the World, and Aus were missing Mcgrath and Warne from their attack.