Six Nations 2013

mynah wrote:

beamer wrote:
France put up a much better showing than earlier in the tournament, but shot themselves in the foot taking off Parra and Trinh-Duc, they just weren't in the game after that.

And we'd thought Lievremont was crazy?! Should investigate the current coach's international phone calls...

At least he started with them this week... seems to be the fashion in international rugby to use all the subs, particularly changing the half-backs and front row, with about 20 minutes to go. Seems fair enough if you're struggling or players look tired but doing it for the sake of it is counter-productive. Would the All Blacks take Carter off for the last quarter in a close game?

beamer wrote:

PeterCS wrote:I only had a go at his haircut!

Well, I did imply (as an unnamed "star") he was below par, but I wasn't scapegoating him or anyone else.

They seemed to be on Twitter etc.

Not sure all the changes worked. 36 seems to give us a more balanced midfield.

Never mind 36, England could do with an 80.

Tommy Fourscore.

Anyway, can injury-hit Ireland keep themselves in the title mix or will the Scottish revival gather pace? BOD is fit to play but Sexton, "Zinedine" Zebo, O'Connell and Bowe among others are missing and they obviously don't feel O'Gara is up to starting any more. Scotland look more adventurous with the departure of Andy Robinson and I can see them springing a bit of a surprise here.

They must have a chance.

Snorfle at France propping up the table.

The Pakistan of rugby

0-0 after 32 mins. Might have well as watched the City game for this.

Well, Scotland repaid beamer's trust.

Only just.

Thrilling last 10 minutes. Not much to shout about (esp if you're Irish) before that.

Well, the Irish had about 80% possession, so no excuses really for not turning it into points.

Title now between England, Wales and Scotland, but an English win over Italy should be enough given the respective points differences. Which would leave Wales trying to spoil the Grand Slam party as they did back in 1999.

Watched the Top Gear arseclowns tearing up Twickers last night; I shuddered, then I laughed.

Mick Sawyer wrote:Watched the Top Gear arseclowns tearing up Twickers last night; I shuddered, then I laughed.

What was the background to that. Presumably the pitch was being relaid anyway?

Shows how little I've followed this year's Six Nations. Since when has Howley been in charge?

Acting coach while Gatland concentrates on the Lions I think.

beamer wrote:Acting coach while Gatland concentrates on the Lions I think.

Aslong as it's just temporary, I'm okay with that.

Time-honoured underwhelmment from England.

Italy back up to the energy and commitment levels shown in Round 1 v France, it's good to see they have joined the Six Nations fully, no longer minnows.

Didn't like the Italian put-in, though. Was being heeled consistently by the prop - can't understand why that was let go.

But then, the scrums this year have been an absolute shocker generally. "Crouch - touch - pause" was not working optimally until this season, mainly because refs were delaying the phases too long and setting up bad scrums as a result.

But this year is shockingly worse. As Moore observed yesterday (with understandable hyperbole), it's taking the referees about half an hour to get each scrum engaged. That is a recipe for exasperation and shambles, for forwards, backs and spectators alike, wastes heaps of time and buggers the game up.

The referees need a talking to, and if this goes on, for some of them, a yellow card.

JGK wrote:

Mick Sawyer wrote:Watched the Top Gear arseclowns tearing up Twickers last night; I shuddered, then I laughed.

What was the background to that. Presumably the pitch was being relaid anyway?

The whole stadium (including the pitch) is getting a tart up for the 2015 gilly

JGK wrote:

Mick Sawyer wrote:Watched the Top Gear arseclowns tearing up Twickers last night; I shuddered, then I laughed.

What was the background to that. Presumably the pitch was being relaid anyway?

You'd think so, though no mention was made. Maybe it was just money talking.

Edit: Just read the sock worrier's post - makes sense.

Kind of reminds me of 20 years ago when they were to dig up some immaculate turf in a park next to the Brisbane casino. They put in an underground carpark. The night before work was due to start a couple of mates and I took down a couple of 4 irons & hit a small bag of balls into the river.

Well ... from an English point of view, an almost predictably rubbishy end.

Some odd first choice selections for this match. Choosing the slow lumberers over the quick breakers.

But the one worst aspect of England's performance was the persistent dead-slow feed for the decisive part of the match. Was Youngs (Ben) on hash, bromide, sedatives?

Warburton was as ever a hero. Along with the equally mighty Robshaw, the Lions will have a great wing forward pairing.

Halfpenny was the inspiration he has always been, even in the years when not recognised as such.

The Welsh played like tigers on their own patch - as everyone could expect. Well done for the old hwyl!

I wasn't happy though with the persistent niggly foul play by Wales until they were well ahead. Or rather, that sort of gamesmanship in crunch matches is traditional - the unsatisfactory thing was the way the prenzie referee chose to ignore the obstructions, block-offs, the late tackles, the false bindings (by Wales) etc in the first half and a bit. By the time the English began to get nettled, the game was up.

When finally will an England team learn to rise above acts of gamesmanship and poor refereeing (snootily pedantic on one side, negligent on the other) and build on its own speed and breaks as a better answer? England fans often wait in vain for the combination of "calm in the head, but speed in the feet and hands". It's tiem England teams learnt there are never any points on offer for a sense of injustice.



Generally speaking, I think, this season's 6N has been a bit better (or at least tenser, more exciting) than most have claimed, apart from ..... the scrum arrangements. A farce, the new procedure. Put-ins to props' feet a la League, incorrect angles of engagement, and above all, massively delayed engagements.... endlessly protracted scrummages are a recipe for frustration among forwards, technical skullduggery, and lots of wasted time all round.

They really should scrap the brilliant new procedure at once. Go back to crouch,touch,pause,engage if that's all that refs are capable of. Streamline it to crouch(properly!),touch,engage. Or introduce a bloody trestle like a racing starting gate, if the referees are really not good enough to regulate a fair, fast enough restart!

Most of them have certainly not shown competence in this area this 6N season.

Well, that was a towelling! Well played Wales.

PeterCS wrote:Well ... from an English point of view, an almost predictably rubbishy end.

Some odd first choice selections for this match. Choosing the slow lumberers over the quick breakers.

But the one worst aspect of England's performance was the persistent dead-slow feed for the decisive part of the match. Was Youngs (Ben) on hash, bromide, sedatives?

Warburton was as ever a hero. Along with the equally mighty Robshaw, the Lions will have a great wing forward pairing.

Halfpenny was the inspiration he has always been, even in the years when not recognised as such.

The Welsh played like tigers on their own patch - as everyone could expect. Well done for the old hwyl!

I wasn't happy though with the persistent niggly foul play by Wales until they were well ahead. Or rather, that sort of gamesmanship in crunch matches is traditional - the unsatisfactory thing was the way the prenzie referee chose to ignore the obstructions, block-offs, the late tackles, the false bindings (by Wales) etc in the first half and a bit. By the time the English began to get nettled, the game was up.

When finally will an England team learn to rise above acts of gamesmanship and poor refereeing (snootily pedantic on one side, negligent on the other) and build on its own speed and breaks as a better answer? England fans often wait in vain for the combination of "calm in the head, but speed in the feet and hands". It's tiem England teams learnt there are never any points on offer for a sense of injustice.



Generally speaking, I think, this season's 6N has been a bit better (or at least tenser, more exciting) than most have claimed, apart from ..... the scrum arrangements. A farce, the new procedure. Put-ins to props' feet a la League, incorrect angles of engagement, and above all, massively delayed engagements.... endlessly protracted scrummages are a recipe for frustration among forwards, technical skullduggery, and lots of wasted time all round.

They really should scrap the brilliant new procedure at once. Go back to crouch,touch,pause,engage if that's all that refs are capable of. Streamline it to crouch(properly!),touch,engage. Or introduce a bloody trestle like a racing starting gate, if the referees are really not good enough to regulate a fair, fast enough restart!

Most of them have certainly not shown competence in this area this 6N season.

A bit whingey methinks

Hmmm. Just read why Walsh became an Aussie!


There were a number wider points I tried to make too, beyond criticising a particular ref I hadn't realised had quite a lot of 'previous'.

I'm not sure who could defend the currently adopted scrum procedure, for example. The France-Scotland match was the best I've seen it run - mainly because the ref was unusually good, conducive to the game, and encouraged brisk progress, instead of strutting around in charge of his own show like some still do, like a more feathered version of Billy Bowden (original version). But in this final game the new scrum procedure also started to fall apart in the second half, through the flaw in the procedure's initial conception (and the flakey pitch too).

I am not sure, either, who could defend England's unhelpfully slow feeds, that old fault - especially when their current attacking strengths (not played to in the last two matches) are speed, and invention.

It's a pity the Scots couldn't show a BIT of that latter in their second half! They set up a good chance with their resolute defence in the first half. But if they were not able actually to set up scores, they were hardly likely to hold out for the 80 mins, even against this very patchy French side.

Usual England in recent years - promising start, scrapping out results in the middle then found wanting when it matters. Pretty much identical to two years ago (although we did take the title then) when we went on to implode in the World Cup. Probably time for the Yarpie coach now. One title in 10 years just isn't acceptable.

Having said that Wales were immense and would probably have beaten the All Blacks with that performance - a few of them should be nailed on for the Lions. Shame we can't make it the European Lions and throw in Parisse, Zanni, Castro, Parra and Dusautoir etc... all the Irish are injured seemingly! 14 Welshmen and Robshaw might do it.

Also not quite sure what Brown and Goode bring to the table. 26 caps between them, and in terms of tries - square root of f*ck all. You can't pick back three players for defence, if they don't get a try every other game, or at least every three games, they're not worth the ground they walk on. Ask New Zealand. What won us the World Cup - yes, Wilkinson's kicking and a superb pack, but the ability of Robinson, Lewsey, Cohen and Greenwood to get us a try when it mattered. Playing defensive wingers is the rugby equivalent of playing Emile Heskey.

Aye, beams - and just now Chris Ashton isn't even doing a defensive job .... he seems completely shot. He needs a good spell of club games to get his shit back together, I think.

Owen Farrell needs more help than he's getting with the playmaking. When he played, 12trees would take some work at 1st reciever if Faz was in the ruck. Since Tuilagi isn't that kind of inside centre, it's a role that Goode should really be taking on more - but he hasn't been.

Scrums are a complete joke, mainly because there's no consistency from one ref to another, or even one scrum to another. Far too many early hits as the calls are not in a smooth time. To me, the exact wording of the calls from the ref isn't important - but once he's satisfied that both packs' binding is acceptable, there should be no pauses once he starts to engage them. Just 5 words, maybe ..... set - one - crouch - two - engage ....... the whole thing taking three second at most, rather than the current situation where theres sometimes a second or two between each command.

On reflection, we were well worth second - and Wales must be reflecting on the inescapable fact that the first 40 minutes of their campaign cost them the slam. Had they played the whole game against Ireland the way they did after the break, it would have been a comfortable one for them, too.

Thanks England, you've might a shite couple of weeks slightly less uncomfortable.

beamer wrote:Also not quite sure what Brown and Goode bring to the table. 26 caps between them, and in terms of tries - square root of f*ck all. You can't pick back three players for defence, if they don't get a try every other game, or at least every three games, they're not worth the ground they walk on. Ask New Zealand. What won us the World Cup - yes, Wilkinson's kicking and a superb pack, but the ability of Robinson, Lewsey, Cohen and Greenwood to get us a try when it mattered. Playing defensive wingers is the rugby equivalent of playing Emile Heskey.

Funnily enough, I think Brown improved during the 6N - at least as regards attack. It's strange you label him 'a defensive winger' - old Matchsticklegs doesn't know how to defend to save his life. He just runs backwards, looking over his shoulder apprehensively. A liability even when he plays relatively well (in attack), I'm afraid.

Goode also looked outstandingly ... bad in this game. Whenever he got the ball, he started jinking on the spot like an electrocuted hare. Not an inspiring sight for his team (or supporters), and wasting time and position. And frankly, he doesn't look like or convince as a last man. You'd think they would have tried Ashton at 15 by now - it was his accustomed position, it's where he won't be stranded without possession and out of position, all he really needs to be told (but it's a big point) is to tackle lower when he has the chance. He has the fluid running, the speed, the anticipation of a good full-back, and can catch and run. However, he began to look like a man at the end of his tether in the last third of the match or so yesterday - hardly surprising by the time the game was going badly and feed had been so slow he hadn't getting any share of the ball in an attacking position. He was by then getting way out of position: I must say by then I wouldn't entirely blame him (see above).

This WOULD have been a match for 36 to start ..... and Care, too. Speed and imagination would actually have beaten the pumped-up 16!


Looking ahead: you'd have to hope the England management would learn one or two obvious lessons from this - and the England squad a couple of age-old ones. 1. Play to your strengths (and play) - 2. rise above the bollocks.