Re: England v Australia, 4th Test, Chester-Le-Street, 9-13 August, 2013

by Henry Mon 05 Aug 2013, 23:10

beamer wrote:
Henry wrote:Finn has one bad test as a bowler and he's dropped. Half of our top six have been awful all series and they don't even contemplate a change. It's all so cosy.....

If they're not going to dish out a few wake-up calls now that the Ashes are secure (for five more months, anyway) then when are they?
Well, who are they going to drop, other than the obvious candidate Bairstow?

Cook - captain and obviously untouchable in the side, just needs to find his best form.
Root - despite several low scores opening, averages well over 40 in fledgling Test career.
Trott - having a bad run but who else would you put at number 3?
Bell - was on shaky ground at the start, but player of the series so far, only man to have contributed significantly in every match.
KP - just scored a century which went a long way towards saving this match, and there's nobody else like him out there.

It is a general theme though that bowlers are easier to drop than batsmen. Why is that? Perhaps because when a batsman is having a bad run of form he gets out early and you often feel he just needs "time in the middle" and it will fall back into place. Whereas there's no hiding place for a bowler, he can toil away dishing out pies for half the match unless the captain loses confidence in him so much he refuses to even use him. A struggling bowler is so visible and also is generally part of a four-man unit whereas there are seven in the main batting unit, so it's harder for others to cover for him.

Trott averages 39 since the start of 2011, and is clearly not the hungry, ruthless batsman he was three years ago. I'd drop him now and give him a wake up call. Bring Gary Ballance into the side and move Bell up to three. Perhaps he's finally ready to bat there.

by LeFromage Mon 05 Aug 2013, 23:51

Henry wrote:
Trott averages 39 since the start of 2011, and is clearly not the hungry, ruthless batsman he was three years ago. I'd drop him now and give him a wake up call. Bring Gary Ballance into the side and move Bell up to three. Perhaps he's finally ready to bat there.

Nothing to do with hunger. No-one loves batting and batting and batting more than Trott.

Teams have just worked him out a little bit. Where before they'd feed his strength by bowling for LBWs and giving him easy runs all day long, they know he's less secure if you hang the ball outside off stump. He's a bit sloppy with his off-side shots.

I wouldn't back against him grinding out a hundred before the series is out.

by Henry Tue 06 Aug 2013, 00:10

Dello wrote:
Henry wrote:
Trott averages 39 since the start of 2011, and is clearly not the hungry, ruthless batsman he was three years ago. I'd drop him now and give him a wake up call. Bring Gary Ballance into the side and move Bell up to three. Perhaps he's finally ready to bat there.

Nothing to do with hunger. No-one loves batting and batting and batting more than Trott.

Teams have just worked him out a little bit. Where before they'd feed his strength by bowling for LBWs and giving him easy runs all day long, they know he's less secure if you hang the ball outside off stump. He's a bit sloppy with his off-side shots.

I wouldn't back against him grinding out a hundred before the series is out.

He looked in sublime touch at Trent Bridge. On side and off side. Perhaps, like has been suggested, he gets a bit giddy when he's in top form, thinking he can do more than his ability warrants. Maybe it's a case of stripping his game back to it's raw foundations, ignoring anything outside off stump, and making the bowlers bowl to his strengths, a bit like Tendulkar did in a test at Sydney in 2004.

by baggygreen Tue 06 Aug 2013, 06:28

Anything released about the Aussie squad and any changes?

by Henry Tue 06 Aug 2013, 07:04

by Brass Monkey Tue 06 Aug 2013, 12:44

Brass Monkey wrote:Anybody mentioned yet that, to go with Bairstow's complete lack of Testitude, if Australia could catch then Joe Root would currently have a string of 6 incredibly low scores to his name - all out. He'd actually be averaging 11.66.

So, whilst there's an 'in your face, selectors' somewhere, I don't really know when or where to put it.

I see it has almost been mentioned in here.

So, without some pretty poor reprieves, we'd have our opener averaging 11.66 and our number 6 averaging 23.2.

Good selections, IMO.

by PeterCS Tue 06 Aug 2013, 13:16

Basil wrote:Finn's been in indifferent form for a while and can have no complaints at being dropped.

This is true.

beamer's various points also hold water. It's generally a harder station for one of four bowlers than for one of seven batsmen. (Even though the batsman often only gets one shot.) Who said cricket was fair? Smile

by PeterCS Tue 06 Aug 2013, 13:16

Brass Monkey wrote:
Brass Monkey wrote:Anybody mentioned yet that, to go with Bairstow's complete lack of Testitude, if Australia could catch then Joe Root would currently have a string of 6 incredibly low scores to his name - all out. He'd actually be averaging 11.66.

So, whilst there's an 'in your face, selectors' somewhere, I don't really know when or where to put it.

I see it has almost been mentioned in here.

So, without some pretty poor reprieves, we'd have our opener averaging 11.66 and our number 6 averaging 23.2.

Good selections, IMO.

So, we're all agreed - Bairstow, Root, and the rest of the top six have to go?

by PeterCS Tue 06 Aug 2013, 14:05

Come to think of it .... that arrogant tosser Anderson is way out of form, that other arrogant tosser Swann blows hot and cold, and the rest of the bowlers and backups are shite from top to bottom.

Maybe we should flush the whole shitload of them down the toilet and start all over again.

Where can we start the hunt for some decent players who are not bigheaded, complacent arsehole twats then? ~ While we're scouring the country, might as well default and let the Aussies walk over the Ashes for a few series. Start from basics.

by taipan Tue 06 Aug 2013, 14:07

PeterCS wrote:Come to think of it .... that arrogant tosser Anderson is way out of form, that other arrogant tosser Swann blows hot and cold, and the rest of the bowlers and backups are shite from top to bottom.

Maybe we should flush the whole shitload of them down the toilet and start all over again.

Where can we start the hunt for some decent players who are not bigheaded, complacent arsehole twats then? ~ While we're scouring the country, might as well default and let the Aussies walk over the Ashes for a few series. Start from basics.

South Africa?

by PeterCS Tue 06 Aug 2013, 14:14

Aye, or Australia. Appoint Matthew Hayden head coach. Get Langer to sort out the batting. Bring back Tim Ambrose. Whatever it takes.

by Brass Monkey Tue 06 Aug 2013, 14:57

PeterCS wrote:
So, we're all agreed - Bairstow, Root, and the rest of the top six have to go?

Well, if we're going to be facetious, yes.

If we're on for a bit of realism, it was a flawed idea from the start. Root's showings against the new ball, when well set from down the order, before this series didn't indicate he was going to go great guns. Almost all of Bairstow's Test innings in their entirety so far alluded to consistently poor showings due to lack of any technique against decent pace or any kind of spin. He had a couple of innings against SA when they bowled so poorly it was exclusively to whatever the few strengths he has and he's dined out on them. It was obvious, IMO. The other four? I think they've earned quite a bit more goodwill than the other two. But, yeah, I'm starting to think #1 and #3 won't cobble together a score in the rest of the series - they're shot to bits and fair play to Australia for doing so much homework on them.

by Brass Monkey Tue 06 Aug 2013, 15:01

PeterCS wrote:Come to think of it .... that arrogant tosser Anderson is way out of form, that other arrogant tosser Swann blows hot and cold, and the rest of the bowlers and backups are shite from top to bottom.

Maybe we should flush the whole shitload of them down the toilet and start all over again.

Where can we start the hunt for some decent players who are not bigheaded, complacent arsehole twats then? ~ While we're scouring the country, might as well default and let the Aussies walk over the Ashes for a few series. Start from basics.

If we're going to be facetious, yeah. But the facts are that Bresnan and Broad lack any penetrative threat - Broad, in particular, is frustrating. He consistently underperforms, his place gets questions, he pulls off a blinding game (or if we're very lucky, a series) then goes back to the unreliable player he's always been. Bresnan has done OK this series, but pretty much all after the event, when the opposition are going the tonk. We're basically functioning with half an attack and the signs of wear and tear are starting to show in both Anderson and Swann - whose pace and revs were down considerably in the latter stages of the 1st / start of the 2nd innings.

Block them out for a session, then what? Back to Broad and Bresnan. When they can't even keep it tight? Throw the ball back to the other tired two.

by Henry Tue 06 Aug 2013, 15:04

For once, I disagree about Broad. He's bowled pretty well this series without luck.

by horace Tue 06 Aug 2013, 15:26

Henry wrote:For once, I disagree about Broad. He's bowled pretty well this series without luck.

agree not as toshy as expected but still the cheating privileged dobber he has always been

by Brass Monkey Tue 06 Aug 2013, 15:30

Henry wrote:For once, I disagree about Broad. He's bowled pretty well this series without luck.

He's bowled well in spells - not much luck, at times. But the overall results allude to ease of keeping him out and, eventually, hitting him out of the attack - he's taken 6 wickets in 5 innings.

by JKLever Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:53

Are people calling for Onions to play? Just watched some of his wickets v Middx and he picked a lot of them up with some of the widest legside dross you've ever seen.

by Chivalry Augustus Tue 06 Aug 2013, 17:18

I thought everybody wanted Tremlett to play. I don't think it makes a difference, most of our reserves are crap or unfit or both. I wish they'd find somebody new. Well, try somebody new. There are other bowlers out there but that doesn't seem to be widely acknowledged in England's selection process.

by PeterCS Tue 06 Aug 2013, 17:56

My own view - perhaps obvious and FWIW - would be Tremlett for Bresnan and Taylor for Bairstow, assuming similar conditions @ CLS as for the first four days @ OT. But that might be a big assumption.

I wouldn't farq anyone left out in a limepit or chemical toilet, though.

by PeterCS Tue 06 Aug 2013, 18:01

JKLever wrote:Are people calling for Onions to play? Just watched some of his wickets v Middx and he picked a lot of them up with some of the widest legside dross you've ever seen.

I assume that's partly fuelled by homeground considerations.

But it doesn't always work out so neatly. Anderson was trying his heart and balls out again @ OT - and maybe trying too hard, instead of settling into a variable groove. It would be good if he had a reliable strike partner, with Broad maybe to follow (pitching it up with an effort bouncer as the surprise - instead of a slow predictable bash-me short delivery as he does when he is uninspired).

by JKLever Tue 06 Aug 2013, 18:08

Chivalry Augustus wrote: There are other bowlers out there

There are?

by PeterCS Tue 06 Aug 2013, 18:17

Dan - you say "if we're on for a bit of realism" ... but you're one of the foremost rending his clothes and howling "England are shit, shit, shit, drossweasels, arrogant complacent wankstain tossers" and all the rest. It's all a bit "hysterical broadbrush", innit? Beyond the shtick, I mean.

You're like a one-man Bloody Anal Army at times, minus Billy's trumpet.

by PeterCS Tue 06 Aug 2013, 18:18

JKLever wrote:
Chivalry Augustus wrote: There are other bowlers out there

There are?

There's always Masters of the Universe ....

by PeterCS Tue 06 Aug 2013, 18:19

We could certainly do with a fresh fast bowler.

(Maybe one of five? Wink

)

by Basil Tue 06 Aug 2013, 18:29

I think the only realistic change for Friday would be Tremlett for Bresnan - and only then if the pitch looks as though it will offer some pace and bounce. Onions appears to have lost a yard of pace and I don't think would be that penetrative

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