Six Nations 2014

Desperate stuff from Scotland - threw it away, when France were at an atrociously low ebb. They made all the wrong tactical decisions, while absolutely bossing the game and possession.

Robbo appears to be right - they need a new coach. To instil some strategic thinking, and sense. It's a pity, because they have some really decent players.

Still, theoretically at least, it keeps the four-way tussle for the title open. After Ireland's atomisation of Italy - O'Driscoll's influence ruled the match, until he went off, by which time the Italians were ready to fold - it's theirs to lose in Paris. Massive points advantage now, and a miles better side than France's. It's a truism that you just never know with French rugby - but if form is any sort of guide, you'd think the Boys in Green should be able to mash the Soft Cockerels as completely and utterly as they have done the Leeks and the Semolinas.

And Poite gets the man of the match.

Just hope this twat never gets a SA game again.

Just a whiff of sour grapes there? Not much credit given for an opposition who played extremely well - and were clearly better on the day, in 90% of the various aspects of the game, and positions on the field.

He's a nervy referee all right - as Gallic as they come. But he blew up both ways, and looking carefully, I saw no imbalance in his right and wrong decisions that favoured either side. I thought he was within his rights to penalise the "old-school" Welsh foul play when they knew they were losing and couldn't do a (legal) thing about it - like the late tackle that denied Brown a try in the corner. The ref could in fact have been harder on the professional fouls in the last part of the game. As for the prop who got sinbinned, he had been warned - through the captain - twice - for exactly the same offence, so what can you say? "Stupidity", comes to mind.


"Moving on": In summary, a gripping game of crunching tackles from both sides.

It was heart-warming - from a long-suffering Pom perspective - to see the much-lionised Welsh backs (and also forwards) not only running dead into brick walls, but being bulldozed backwards in the tackle. Six penalties, some gifted by poor England decisions. But trywise, no way through, through the line or through the men.

Fair play to Wales though, for gallantry in running, and tackling. And Halfpenny is just immense.

On the other hand, not sure where their strategy was. Some time ago, I expressed an opinion that I thought a bit less of Gatland for a tactically unjustified, and I thought presumably vindictive act. Thought a bit less of him as a man, and man manager, rather than a strategist, as I said. The Lions still won, true enough, because FINALLY they made use of their superiority with optimistic, purposive, ATTACKING play instead of just trying to blot out the Australians and failing. ... After this game v England, I am wondering a bit about his strategic/tactical sense. Why did he (presumably) instruct Wales to kick the ball to uncontested areas - without any chase or pressure from the backs whatsoever - and give relief and initiative to England time and again? It improved slightly after half-time, but nowhere near enough.

England have a long way to go if they are to compete on the world stage, but they seem to be making progress.

Their "central" players were massive today - the second-row forwards did everything including dump attacking opposition backs, the two centres were tireless heroes, Care has speeded up his service and is bright as a button, Farrell continues to make strides, and Robshaw (though worryingly a bit cumbersome at times!) was an inspirational lionheart leading by example once again. And Michael Brown is the most improved player since Mitchell Johnson's comeback.

Hooker is a big problem for England though. Not just Hartley's various infringements, but his unwillingness (or inability?) to hook the bloody thing in the scrum. It wasn't that his pack were shoved off the ball - he didn't seem to try.

And as for "Jeannie Mae" - words fail me. He's a liability, a jinking bundle of nerves, and a constant danger to his own team. Why is he there?

So, Ireland's title, unless they choke on frogs' legs in Paris.

That seems quite unlikely, given France's form. Mais, avec la France, on ne sait jamais.

Sour grapes. WHy?

I thought he was the best English player on the day.

Meh, it was an okay game at Twickers.
The brick wall worked keeping the Taffs out, but the penalties that Hartley and the English mob gave away were just plain bloody stupid - in fact, every time England put a score on the board, within 3 minutes, the Taffs got 3 points back.

Lancaster's got to tighten up the loose (and irresponsible) play.

The Frogs should beat the Leprachauns at the Stad next Sunday - but better still would be for England to run in 50 plus clear points against the Pizza-men.

taipan wrote:Sour grapes. WHy?

I thought he was the best English player on the day.

The grapes just get sourer

Well, if (as it seems) you are convinced Wales were robbed, best of luck finding disciples. You may need to delve into the lunatic fringes of 1970s Welsh nationalism.

True, Eddie Butler always takes care to heed the warning from his doctor that he would have a seizure if he ever gave England praise ( ) - but the legendary Jonathan Davies and the stout-hearted Martyn Williams did not mention the ref once (except to agree with decisions he made). Whereas both stated absolutely clearly - far more unconditionally than my humble assessment - that Wales' opponents completely outthought and outplayed them throughout the game, and thoroughly deserved their win.

And both are ardent, red-blooded patriots, always delighted to seize on Welsh prowess/dominance.

But both have two eyes.


@ Merlin: If Ireland win, England will need to win by almost three figures, I think! No - Ireland will have to fall flat on their faces (especially unlikely as it's BOD's farewell party), or else the French will have to play out of their skins.

PeterCS wrote:

taipan wrote:Sour grapes. WHy?

I thought he was the best English player on the day.

The grapes just get sourer

Well, if (as it seems) you are convinced Wales were robbed, best of luck finding disciples. You may need to delve into the lunatic fringes of 1970s Welsh nationalism.

True, Eddie Butler always takes care to heed the warning from his doctor that he would have a seizure if he ever gave England praise ( ) - but the legendary Jonathan Davies and the stout-hearted Martyn Williams did not mention the ref once (except to agree with decisions he made). Whereas both stated absolutely clearly - far more unconditionally than my humble assessment - that Wales' opponents completely outthought and outplayed them throughout the game, and thoroughly deserved their win.

And both are ardent, red-blooded patriots, always delighted to seize on Welsh prowess/dominance.

But both have two eyes.


@ Merlin: If Ireland win, England will need to win by almost three figures, I think!  No - Ireland will have to fall flat on their faces (especially unlikely as it's BOD's farewell party), or else the French will have to play out of their skins.

Maybe, they like you, do not understand the rules pertaining to the breakdown or the rules pertaining to play the man in the air.

I would also refer you to the rules pertaining to the early push in the scrum before the ball has been introduced which led to the Welsh yellow card.

I appreciate you don't watch much rugby but fully expect another 50 paragraphs of rubbish trying to justify your early comments,

England do really seem to be developing as a unit - the pack is solid despite missing first choice props, the centres are doing well and will make the likes of Tuilagi have to work hard to get back in the side, Care looks a new man, Farrell reliable from the kicking tee and Brown always a threatening runner.

Wing is a continuing problem though, I think May and Nowell have been promoted from well down the pecking order as the next two in line (Yarde and Wade I think) both got injured and they ran out of patience with Ashton. And up front they have the indiscipline of Hartley but the fact Youngs can't throw means they have little alternative. But there's less weak areas than any time since 2003 I think.

Anyway, start well against Italy, be 20 or so up at half time and there's no reason why they can't get 60 or so and make Ireland have to do more than just scrape a win. But obviously they have to make sure of just winning it and not be complacent, as Italy may have a big performance in them.

taipan wrote:

PeterCS wrote:

taipan wrote:Sour grapes. WHy?

I thought he was the best English player on the day.

The grapes just get sourer

Well, if (as it seems) you are convinced Wales were robbed, best of luck finding disciples. You may need to delve into the lunatic fringes of 1970s Welsh nationalism.

True, Eddie Butler always takes care to heed the warning from his doctor that he would have a seizure if he ever gave England praise ( ) - but the legendary Jonathan Davies and the stout-hearted Martyn Williams did not mention the ref once (except to agree with decisions he made). Whereas both stated absolutely clearly - far more unconditionally than my humble assessment - that Wales' opponents completely outthought and outplayed them throughout the game, and thoroughly deserved their win.

And both are ardent, red-blooded patriots, always delighted to seize on Welsh prowess/dominance.

But both have two eyes.


@ Merlin: If Ireland win, England will need to win by almost three figures, I think!  No - Ireland will have to fall flat on their faces (especially unlikely as it's BOD's farewell party), or else the French will have to play out of their skins.

Maybe, they like you, do not understand the rules pertaining to the breakdown or the rules pertaining to play the man in the air.

With all due respect, I trust their judgment more than yours.

I think I know the rules well enough. The problem is that you see only infringements against the Welsh. The one eye.

As for tackling the man in the air, it (like the problems with the scrum) is more complex than you pretend. If you tackle the man with the ball when he's in the air, that's a foul. If however a man comes flying through the air above someone who is about to claim the ball, crashes into the hands of the opponent and awkwardly to the ground, you seem to see that as foul play if the "flyer" is Welsh.

And all the knock-ons were by the English, you'll be telling yourself next.

taipan wrote:I would also refer you to the rules pertaining to the early push in the scrum before the ball has been introduced which led to the Welsh yellow card.

I appreciate you don't watch much rugby but fully expect another 50 paragraphs of rubbish trying to justify your early comments,

The man who resorts to cheap abuse in such cases generally has lost the argument, or is a deeply embittered individual, or both.

beamer wrote:England do really seem to be developing as a unit - the pack is solid despite missing first choice props, the centres are doing well and will make the likes of Tuilagi have to work hard to get back in the side, Care looks a new man, Farrell reliable from the kicking tee and Brown always a threatening runner.

Wing is a continuing problem though, I think May and Nowell have been promoted from well down the pecking order as the next two in line (Yarde and Wade I think) both got injured and they ran out of patience with Ashton. And up front they have the indiscipline of Hartley but the fact Youngs can't throw means they have little alternative. But there's less weak areas than any time since 2003 I think.

Anyway, start well against Italy, be 20 or so up at half time and there's no reason why they can't get 60 or so and make Ireland have to do more than just scrape a win. But obviously they have to make sure of just winning it and not be complacent, as Italy may have a big performance in them.

Ah, what a relief to read some comments that are open-minded discussion, rather than thoroughly biased and jaundiced carping.

I'm not sure the pack is THAT solid yet, though. I agree with the rest of your assessment in the first two paragraphs. Nowell is not too bad generally, I think, though (like Halfpenny - perhaps no bad thing) he disconcertingly scuttles along in crouched position, like a cockroach on speed. His handling is decent and his choices appear generally good: for example he doesn't isolate himself, or fling hospital passes at point blank range. The other winger, on the other hand, ..... well. ...

And for the rest, as you suggest, beamer, it's obviously not a safe assumption that England will win in Rome, whatever the outcome in Paris. Italy have shown some skill and fight in all but one match, and as you indicate, they are sure to have the strong desire to end their season on a high note.

On the positive side for England, I don't believe the Lancaster/Farrell (snr)/Rowntree set-up is given to falling into, or allowing their players to fall into, complacency. It's a hard-working, serious unit in control, as well as on the pitch. The problem might rather be getting frustrated and/or rattled and/or panicky in the heat of the battle if scores don't come, or if Italy establish a lead. (This remains an English disease - in cricket and football too!)

I hope they can sort out the hooker duties, and find a replacement for Johnny May (or at least give him some legal sedative), because those are two  weak links that flash like neon signs in the dark.

PeterCS wrote:

taipan wrote:

PeterCS wrote:

taipan wrote:Sour grapes. WHy?

I thought he was the best English player on the day.

The grapes just get sourer

Well, if (as it seems) you are convinced Wales were robbed, best of luck finding disciples. You may need to delve into the lunatic fringes of 1970s Welsh nationalism.

True, Eddie Butler always takes care to heed the warning from his doctor that he would have a seizure if he ever gave England praise ( ) - but the legendary Jonathan Davies and the stout-hearted Martyn Williams did not mention the ref once (except to agree with decisions he made). Whereas both stated absolutely clearly - far more unconditionally than my humble assessment - that Wales' opponents completely outthought and outplayed them throughout the game, and thoroughly deserved their win.

And both are ardent, red-blooded patriots, always delighted to seize on Welsh prowess/dominance.

But both have two eyes.


@ Merlin: If Ireland win, England will need to win by almost three figures, I think!  No - Ireland will have to fall flat on their faces (especially unlikely as it's BOD's farewell party), or else the French will have to play out of their skins.

Maybe, they like you, do not understand the rules pertaining to the breakdown or the rules pertaining to play the man in the air.

With all due respect, I trust their judgment more than yours.

I think I know the rules well enough. The problem is that you see only infringements against the Welsh. The one eye.

As for tackling the man in the air, it (like the problems with the scrum) is more complex than you pretend. If you tackle the man with the ball when he's in the air, that's a foul. If however a man comes flying through the air above someone who is about to claim the ball, crashes into the hands of the opponent and awkwardly to the ground, you seem to see that as foul play if the "flyer" is Welsh.

And all the knock-ons were by the English, you'll be telling yourself next.

And that is your problem. You always depend on others to make judgements for you. The red method I call it.

And as to knowledge of the rules, was it only a few short months ago that you couldn't differentiate between a tip tackle and an ankle tap.

By no means do I DEPEND on others. After I had given my own, entirely unpropped viewpoint, I cited a far more emphatic more reliable authority (or rather two) in the game than you, to suggest that your own bullish conviction might be very poorly-founded.

But hey. It seems you're "reverting to taip", and - in the fine phrase beloved in Wales - just embarrassing yourself.

Or rather - since, whenever personally involved, you seem oblivious to any sense of proportion, shame or reason - others can feel embarrassed for you.

I saw no comment from you after Ireland completely demolished Wales (which incidentally gave Ireland the lead - and also some justification - to take over as this year's champions). Perhaps apoplectic with rage on that occasion too that the far better team had been robbed by a bastard referee?

I'll let you have the last word, because I am not interested in a non-argument.

So only 4 paragraphs for the non argument.

Give it a rest, men?

It seems unlikely that you will ever agree on this one.

I only watched the 2nd half, but from what I saw it seemed like the best team won and I don't think a different ref would have changed the result.

That's because you obviously don't understand the first thing about the laws of the game, vilks.

Mind you, you're not alone. Whatever their diagnosis, none of the Welsh playing legends, rugby directors, pundits, experts, or fans - all of them Welsh, and all highly patriotic - understand the basic fact that the ref was steaming bullshit and Wales should have been given the game, either! It's bloody scandalous!.

*Jonathan Davies*, *Rob Jones*, Gareth Llewellyn, Lyn Jones (on BBC Wales' main Rugby programme)

*Martyn Williams*, criticising the Welsh coaches' faulty strategy and inflexibility

Detailed analysis of the game (by ScrumV expert Sean Holley)

Rugby correspondent of Wales Online (also exploding Gat's proposed excuse that Welsh players were too tired)

Welsh fans who were there

Even Gatland's own bloody assessment admits the better team won!


All in all, it seems there's only *one person on the planet* who understands the laws of the game - and it appears he's bought exclusive rights to the correct interpretation of games.

"Moving on", again ...

Lancaster got it exactly right, I think, when he resisted his BBC interviewer's suggestion after the match that England had to rack up a cricket score v Italy. He laughed, and took the view the team had to pay Italy more respect than that. Instead (he said) England had to keep working on their game, to build on strengths and reduce errors, and to do all they could. The rest was out of their hands (in Paris). ~ ~ I hope England do indeed keep up the "patient urgency" (rather than the traditional, easily-rattled frantic frazzle), with the flexible tactics and quick-wittedness they have started to develop.

By rights, Ireland deserve the championship this year. But they still have to earn it.

As for Wales: Gatland is still, clearly, one of the shrewdest coaches in the world. A couple of crunching defeats don't suddenly change that. And Wales have every opportunity at the weekend of marmalising this season's tactical weakest link, Scotland. (Less than 25 points will probably be deemed a failure - it's a hard world.) ~ ~ Let's just hope they don't get yet another bastard idiot crooked referee!

PeterCS wrote:That's because you obviously don't understand the first thing about the laws of the game, vilks.

Mind you, you're not alone. Whatever their diagnosis, none of the Welsh playing legends, rugby directors, pundits, experts, or fans - all of them Welsh, and all highly patriotic - understand the basic fact that the ref was steaming bullshit and Wales should have been given the game, either! It's bloody scandalous!.

*Jonathan Davies*, *Rob Jones*, Gareth Llewellyn, Lyn Jones (on BBC Wales' main Rugby programme)

*Martyn Williams*, criticising the Welsh coaches' faulty strategy and inflexibility

Detailed analysis of the game (by ScrumV expert Sean Holley)

Rugby correspondent of Wales Online (also exploding Gat's proposed excuse that Welsh players were too tired)

Welsh fans who were there

Even Gatland's own bloody assessment admits the better team won!


All in all, it seems there's only *one person on the planet* who understands the laws of the game - and it appears he's bought exclusive rights to the correct interpretation of games.

Ah, managed almost two days after the "last word"

Just couldn't resist hey Petie Boy.

Fark you are so Farking easy. But to be fair, you held out longer than I expected.

Well what a surprisingly good weekend of Rugby! I thought the Saturday was going to be dire, but the Scottish allowed a woeful and I mean farking woeful French side to win again!

That followed by BOD being simply brilliant in a good Ireland performance against the Scots who finally picked a decent side, but because they hadn't played together were all over the shop.

The England game was perplexing to say the least. Gatlands game plan was interesting except he had the wrong half backs to play it! Priestland was just terrible.

England's gain line defence was very good indeed, and our locks if they keep progressing and stay fit are going to be a scary tandem!

Not sure what the problem is with the Welsh and the refereeing at the scrums, they would have beaten us in this part of the game if they had just packed down square, but Gethin twisted like writhing snake, it was so obvious the ref had no choice!

By the way, Halfpenny is awesome, nothing more nothing less!

That being said, we do need Corbs and Cole back and our pack will be very good!

And sh1t the bed if Jonny May is a test winger! He is awful!

So, the Irish will send BOD out on a high in Paris, and the most consistent side will have won the 6 nations!

So, predictions for the final day of the Championship:

- England to labour to a single-figure victory margin over Italy, Farrell's boot getting us out of trouble.
- Scotland to stun a Welsh side going through the motions a Halfpenny short of a full pound...
- France to ruin BOD's farewell with a late winning try, England take the title.

There's a chance of the scots beating Wales, especially with Halfpenny absent, although it will be no easy feat in Cardiff.

History says that France should win in Paris, but the BOD factor could well make the difference this time.

I expect England to beat Italy quite comfortably (15 - 20 points ) - but not by the huge margin some think may happen. I think - as against Wales - we will force Italy to concede penalties, whilst I imagine Farrell Snr & Graham Rowntree will have given the squad an ear-chewing about conceding soft, stupid penalties when not under pressure ..... give one or two at most - not six.

Since Owen Farrell may well be in the Premiership finals and so missing the start of the summer tour, if England are ahead at half time and the Italians not too threatening then the management may give George Ford a run at fly-half and moving Owen to centre.

6N winners - heart hopes England, head says Ireland.

taipan wrote:

PeterCS wrote:That's because you obviously don't understand the first thing about the laws of the game, vilks.

Mind you, you're not alone. Whatever their diagnosis, none of the Welsh playing legends, rugby directors, pundits, experts, or fans - all of them Welsh, and all highly patriotic - understand the basic fact that the ref was steaming bullshit and Wales should have been given the game, either! It's bloody scandalous!.

*Jonathan Davies*, *Rob Jones*, Gareth Llewellyn, Lyn Jones (on BBC Wales' main Rugby programme)

*Martyn Williams*, criticising the Welsh coaches' faulty strategy and inflexibility

Detailed analysis of the game (by ScrumV expert Sean Holley)

Rugby correspondent of Wales Online (also exploding Gat's proposed excuse that Welsh players were too tired)

Welsh fans who were there

Even Gatland's own bloody assessment admits the better team won!


All in all, it seems there's only *one person on the planet* who understands the laws of the game - and it appears he's bought exclusive rights to the correct interpretation of games.

Ah, managed almost two days after the "last word"

Just couldn't resist hey Petie Boy.

Fark you are so Farking easy.  But to be fair, you held out longer than I expected.

Nup. I wasn't talking to you - your non-argument was already done. This bit is to correct your new floundering mudwrestle with yourself.