England v West Indies, 2nd Test, Headingley, 25-29 August, 2017

Windies dropping chances really has tipped the balance strongly England's way. Hard to imagine they will survive and/or chase down the target. Root appears to be dropped on single figures in most innings so this is one area opponents need to improve if they are to put the poms to the sword. Finding a way of limiting their lower middle order is another.

I fear Stokes and Jonny in Aus.

skully wrote:I fear Stokes and Jonny in Aus.

One of the few who tried last time. Should have left with his head held high after the we insist on these menu items tour.

That tour was dominated by those who refused to try when things did not go their way - Prior, Anderson and Chinhead (who retired rather than bring drinks out to his team mates when he was dropped)

So the Windies hopes lay with the Brath and the Hope.

Daryl and the diamond ...

halfway - runs, time - and only two down.

It could get interesting if these two hang in until tea time

Damn, Daryl out just before tea, score now 3-200.

122 needed in the last session.  Or 7 wickets ...

Or a collapso.

Just seems no energy or ideas about England when the opposition don't politely throw in the towel. Nobody should chase 300+ batting last on an English pitch, certainly not a batting line-up that proved themselves sub-Direbyshire standard at Edgbaston.

One thing's for sure, Root will never make an aggressive declaration again. If this wasn't his first summer in charge I'd be calling for his head, declaring and losing is a sackable offence for a Test captain. He should have shut up shop at tea and told them to stick it two feet outside off.

Well done Windies!

Well, they put up a great performance and it was a classic Test, but on the whole a pretty embarrassing showing from England. Heads go down every time we go an hour without a wicket or the ball doesn't do anything, it's a waste of time us even going to Australia.

We've got a piss poor record at Lord's so fully expect WI to take the series now. Could apparently have got 150-1 yesterday on that though I couldn't actually find it.

Don't know where to start in terms of changes for the next match, I mean everyone but Westley contributed something so hard to find any other scapegoats but it was a horrible team effort, other than second innings with the bat. The coaching staff need to think seriously about what they're bringing to this Test side, my suspicion is it ends with "all".

beamer wrote:Just seems no energy or ideas about England when the opposition don't politely throw in the towel. Nobody should chase 300+ batting last on an English pitch, certainly not a batting line-up that proved themselves sub-Direbyshire standard at Edgbaston.

One thing's for sure, Root will never make an aggressive declaration again. If this wasn't his first summer in charge I'd be calling for his head, declaring and losing is a sackable offence for a Test captain. He should have shut up shop at tea and told them to stick it two feet outside off.

320+ in the last innings is hardly an aggressive declaration.

taipan wrote:

beamer wrote:Just seems no energy or ideas about England when the opposition don't politely throw in the towel. Nobody should chase 300+ batting last on an English pitch, certainly not a batting line-up that proved themselves sub-Direbyshire standard at Edgbaston.

One thing's for sure, Root will never make an aggressive declaration again. If this wasn't his first summer in charge I'd be calling for his head, declaring and losing is a sackable offence for a Test captain. He should have shut up shop at tea and told them to stick it two feet outside off.

320+ in the last innings is hardly an aggressive declaration.

Giving the opposition any kind of a sniff of a chase when you don't have to is an aggressive declaration.

Admittedly it's not as bad as declaring 4 down and losing, as we could easily have lost those last two wickets in as many balls. But you have to realise that 300+ can be chased on a decent pitch if you bowl poorly these days. He won't make that mistake again.

beamer wrote:

taipan wrote:

beamer wrote:Just seems no energy or ideas about England when the opposition don't politely throw in the towel. Nobody should chase 300+ batting last on an English pitch, certainly not a batting line-up that proved themselves sub-Direbyshire standard at Edgbaston.

One thing's for sure, Root will never make an aggressive declaration again. If this wasn't his first summer in charge I'd be calling for his head, declaring and losing is a sackable offence for a Test captain. He should have shut up shop at tea and told them to stick it two feet outside off.

320+ in the last innings is hardly an aggressive declaration.

Giving the opposition any kind of a sniff of a chase when you don't have to is an aggressive declaration.

Admittedly it's not as bad as declaring 4 down and losing, as we could easily have lost those last two wickets in as many balls. But you have to realise that 300+ can be chased on a decent pitch if you bowl poorly these days. He won't make that mistake again.

Poorly is the operative word. How many 320+ have been chased in aengland?

Did I just hear Bayliss say he was surprised Cook dropped a couple?

Yeah, no answers from Littlefinger* just "taking the positives" and making excuses for their inconsistency.

Would be great for the world game if this did spark a genuine WI revival and led to them getting into the top three in a few years' time, but this and the other current match in progress illustrates that Test cricket currently has no great teams, one good team and nine mediocre ones.

*Bayliss - Baelish - get it?  

Spoiler:

WideWally wrote:Well done Windies!

This. Great win

taipan wrote:

beamer wrote:

taipan wrote:

beamer wrote:Just seems no energy or ideas about England when the opposition don't politely throw in the towel. Nobody should chase 300+ batting last on an English pitch, certainly not a batting line-up that proved themselves sub-Direbyshire standard at Edgbaston.

One thing's for sure, Root will never make an aggressive declaration again. If this wasn't his first summer in charge I'd be calling for his head, declaring and losing is a sackable offence for a Test captain. He should have shut up shop at tea and told them to stick it two feet outside off.

320+ in the last innings is hardly an aggressive declaration.

Giving the opposition any kind of a sniff of a chase when you don't have to is an aggressive declaration.

Admittedly it's not as bad as declaring 4 down and losing, as we could easily have lost those last two wickets in as many balls. But you have to realise that 300+ can be chased on a decent pitch if you bowl poorly these days. He won't make that mistake again.

Poorly is the operative word. How many 320+ have been chased in aengland?

It's been done twice. 1984 at Lords where WIndies made 344 in just 66 overs - Gordon Greenidge scoring 214 at a S/R of 88.4, and 1948 at Headingley - The Don's Invincibles scoring the 404 which, almost 70 years later has only been bettered on three occasions.

To put the WI achievement this match into perspective, 300+ has only been chased successfully on 28 occasions in over two thousand Test matches.

Well done West Indies - yes, our bowling was poor - but the runs still had to be put on the board, and they made it look far easier than it should have been.

What a mighty win by the West Indies. Dare I say the best thing to happen for WI cricket in 20 years, maybe the best thing to happen for Test cricket in a similar period.  The best things about the win ... a win away, a win by the weak WI batting over a strong England attack that has taken a kilowicket, led by a batsman who IIRC had a Test batting average under 19 coming into this match.  A West Indian batting hero in the Test arena, not just a Pollard-Gayle-Russell genre slogger. Fantastic stuff. This should be all about WI brilliance, nothing to do with England 'choking' or handing the game away with a premature declaration, that just sounds like sour grapes. Wonderful, marvellous stuff, I hope Shai Hope and Brathwaite can inspire hundreds if not thousands of West Indian kids with this performance which will go down as one of their greatest ever wins, especially given the humiliating flogging they were coming off.  Give them due credit, English friends!!

Great stuff from the Ganjas. Some rare joy for their weatherbeaten supporters.

Is Shai Hope the New Hope?

The Hope diamond.

No more Coconut Shai.

skully wrote:Great stuff from the Ganjas. Some rare joy for their weatherbeaten supporters.

Is Shai Hope the New Hope?

I already got the Star Wars pun in after the first innings...

His hapless brother's still "Bob" though (unluckiest run-out of the year to add to his dropped catches). Watch him make a double century at Lord's now...

"Shai Hope" also brought the song "Jai Ho" (from Slumdog Millionaire) into my head... "Shai Hope, you are the reason that I still believe" etc...

Part of the learning curve for the new captain - not the declaration, more the handling of bowlers and an instilling of urgency from that point.

But potentially a great result for the Windies, for Test cricket and world cricket. A rickety match in many respects, but a 5-day thriller for all that.

A decent test of the England team's mettle, too. Those pointlessly easy runs forecast for positions 2, 3 and 5 are pointlessly easy runs no longer. But an acid test (at Lord's).

I suppose Toblerones will be back!

PeterCS wrote:Part of the learning curve for the new captain - not the declaration, more the handling of bowlers and an instilling of urgency from that point.

But potentially a great result for the Windies, for Test cricket and world cricket. A rickety match in many respects, but a 5-day thriller for all that.

A decent test of the England team's mettle, too. Those pointlessly easy runs forecast for positions 2, 3 and 5 are pointlessly easy runs no longer. But an acid test (at Lord's).

I suppose Toblerones will be back!

On his home ground, presumably he will.

I'd just bring him in for Westley and shift everyone else up one place. Woakes contributes more with the bat than some of our top order anyway.