England v West Indies, 3rd Test, Lords, 7-11 September, 2017

I think there's some unnecessary negativity around their bowling ... Gabriel, Holder and Roach form a useful trio of fast bowlers; Chase and Bishoo will do well when wickets favour spin. It's just that for years they've had to bowl a second innings within 50-60 overs of their first effort; not surprising that they can't back up quickly. Holder has significant leadership ability. I'd ditch Dowrich but retain Kyle Hope (as the keeper) and certainly would not inflict the gloves on Shai Hope. In Powell, Brathwaite, Shai Hope, Daren Bravo, Blackwood and Chase they'd have a decent top 6; and the bowling attack as named rounds out a fairly decent XI. I'd have Carlos Brathwaite as the reserve all-rounder/bowler; coming in for Bishoo when the wickets aren't conducive to his work. Reserve pace bowling is thin, it's true.

Anderson stars again. Windies disappointing in the end.

Anderson is an interesting one. By and large he has looked impotent on our shores but a world-beater in England.

This ended up being a really good series. Kudos to both teams. Some fine individual efforts including those from Jimmeh and A New Hope. 

That the Windies regrouped after T1 to win the second and be in with a shot in the 3rd is testament to Holder. 

With Miserable's retirement, I think Holder is now the primo skipper in Test cricket.

Re Growls' and Beamer's comments about the forthcoming Ashes tour, I think it will be close. 

Our attack is a bit stronger but your mob bat deeper with the all rounders you will select. 

Re Jimmeh, aside from the jokes about the menu demands and his hubris, he struggled for penetration on our flat decks last time. His decline in pace was no doubt a factor and I doubt that has improved in the intervening years. 

Last time here Piggsy Stokes announced himself as a serious competitive player. I have no doubt he will have a great tour. Malfoy was serviceable last time and I expect he will be competitive again. Root will have a grand tour. 

The old Chef will have nightmares about coming back here. I hope for his sake and that of his great record that he is not embarrassed. 

The last Ashes tour here saw the retirements (forced or otherwise) of KP, the admirable Trott, the odious Prior and the even more odious Chinhead (forced to retire because he refused to carry the drinks out for Monty).

Pomgolian tours here generally unearth one or two players who rise to the occasion. Last time it was Piggsy Stokes. This time it could be Woakes, Hameed and (yes) Ballance. They are tough and skilled and should prosper here.

Oz have plenty of problems to resolve. 

Warner, the gcspoc, remains a big headed ftb. The odd synapse he gets in his noggin tells him he will dominate on our characterless tracks. He usually does but no-one will be surprised if he bombs out.

Renshaw, the kid from Qld is a gutsy promising opener. He should do well but a couple of failures will see him under pressure from Ch Nein, the NSW commentariat, the bnlg and Koala Jnr for him to be replaced by some random Spiv or WA player.

We have no number 3. Smith should probably play there. Uber Koala may be given a Test or two, provided he scores some runs in the Shield.

Smith. Great bat/vin ordinaire captain.

Handscomb. Sneaky Pete averages over 50 but will remain under pressure.

We have no number 6. The NSP are desperate for an all rounder. We have none. Maxwell is the incumbent and did ok in India but the Skipper won't bowl him. WA will scream for Donkey Cartwight or even worse M Marsh. Kjnr and NSW will argue for some ransom Spiv. The position should go to Head.

Keeper/number 7. Wade will be sacked. Did not score enough runs v the Bangles. There are a number of good young keepers playing in the Shield. They will be by-passed for Neville who is an ok keeper but a crap bat.

Cummins/Pattinson, Starc, Lyon and Hazlewood will comprise the attack.

Usually you can tell who will be in the Oz team by watching out for players appearing in early season KFC ads. The upshot of the contract dispute is that the KFC cast may no longer be the best guide. 

It is all very confusing.

A bit of a doddle in the end for England. Well done them.

7-42 for Jimmeh, eh. He's getting better with age. Look out Aus.

horace wrote:This ended up being a really good series. Kudos to both teams. Some fine individual efforts including those from Jimmeh and A New Hope. 

That the Windies regrouped after T1 to win the second and be in with a shot in the 3rd is testament to Holder. 

With Miserable's retirement, I think Holder is now the primo skipper in Test cricket.

Re Growls' and Beamer's comments about the forthcoming Ashes tour, I think it will be close. 

Our attack is a bit stronger but your mob bat deeper with the all rounders you will select. 

Re Jimmeh, aside from the jokes about the menu demands and his hubris, he struggled for penetration on our flat decks last time. His decline in pace was no doubt a factor and I doubt that has improved in the intervening years. 

Last time here Piggsy Stokes announced himself as a serious competitive player. I have no doubt he will have a great tour. Malfoy was serviceable last time and I expect he will be competitive again. Root will have a grand tour. 

The old Chef will have nightmares about coming back here. I hope for his sake and that of his great record that he is not embarrassed. 

The last Ashes tour here saw the retirements (forced or otherwise) of KP, the admirable Trott, the odious Prior and the even more odious Chinhead (forced to retire because he refused to carry the drinks out for Monty).

Pomgolian tours here generally unearth one or two players who rise to the occasion. Last time it was Piggsy Stokes. This time it could be Woakes, Hameed and (yes) Ballance. They are tough and skilled and should prosper here.

Oz have plenty of problems to resolve. 

Warner, the gcspoc, remains a big headed ftb. The odd synapse he gets in his noggin tells him he will dominate on our characterless tracks. He usually does but no-one will be surprised if he bombs out.

Renshaw, the kid from Qld is a gutsy promising opener. He should do well but a couple of failures will see him under pressure from Ch Nein, the NSW commentariat, the bnlg and Koala Jnr for him to be replaced by some random Spiv or WA player.

We have no number 3. Smith should probably play there. Uber Koala may be given a Test or two, provided he scores some runs in the Shield.

Smith. Great bat/vin ordinaire captain.

Handscomb. Sneaky Pete averages over 50 but will remain under pressure.

We have no number 6. The NSP are desperate for an all rounder. We have none. Maxwell is the incumbent and did ok in India but the Skipper won't bowl him. WA will scream for Donkey Cartwight or even worse M Marsh. Kjnr and NSW will argue for some ransom Spiv. The position should go to Head.

Keeper/number 7. Wade will be sacked. Did not score enough runs v the Bangles. There are a number of good young keepers playing in the Shield. They will be by-passed for Neville who is an ok keeper but a crap bat.

Cummins/Pattinson, Starc, Lyon and Hazlewood will comprise the attack.

Usually you can tell who will be in the Oz team by watching out for players appearing in early season KFC ads. The upshot of the contract dispute is that the KFC cast may no longer be the best guide. 

It is all very confusing.

I don't think Nevill is anywhere near as crappy as you have suggested; IMHO, he's a far better Test bat than Wade. The inexperienced but very promising Alex Carey may yet be promoted but I suspect Nevill, Wade, or (yes it's a long shot, but even the Cricinfo pollsters think it's not ridiculous) Tim Paine could be chosen above him for the first Test. I'd be happy with either Nevill or Paine, or even Carey, but FFS not Wade. Whiteman is of course recovering from injury and out of the picture. Runs in the first 3 rounds of the Shield will probably decide the keeping position.

Nifty is no threat with the bat. 

I hope Harps, the promising young Vix keeper who copped a nasty head injury last season, recovers and continues to develop. We are lucky to finally have a few promising young keepers. 

PS Paine is hopeless. Crocinfo proves its nickname.

Nevil is a bigger threat than Weed with bat and he's no worse with the gloves

Horrie's comments re Smith batting at 3 refer. In the past few years we have seen a number of captains hiding down the order. IMHO Root should be coming in at 3 for England. Faf should have manned up and gone to 4 against England, but he chose to throw Bavuma to the wolves. AB has been hiding down the order for years. And then we have Michael Clarke.

Hmmn ...odd fact... Taips and I agree about both J L Carre and Skippers not putting themselves where they are needed in the order. Both events in a matter of days.

Counselling for both of us. 

skully wrote:Nevil is a bigger threat than Weed with bat and he's no worse with the gloves

lol. Nifty is a passive nerdling with the bat in Tests. Seasick Steve was right to demand his sacking.

horace wrote:Hmmn ...odd fact... Taips and I agree about both J L Carre and Skippers not putting themselves where they are needed in the order. Both events in a matter of days.

Counselling for both of us. 

Actually you have been agreeing with me a lot over the past fortnight.

lardbucket wrote:I think there's some unnecessary negativity around their bowling ... Gabriel, Holder and Roach form a useful trio of fast bowlers; Chase and Bishoo will do well when wickets favour spin.  It's just that for years they've had to bowl a second innings within 50-60 overs of their first effort; not surprising that they can't back up quickly.  Holder has significant leadership ability.  I'd ditch Dowrich but retain Kyle Hope (as the keeper) and certainly would not inflict the gloves on Shai Hope.  In Powell, Brathwaite, Shai Hope, Daren Bravo, Blackwood and Chase they'd have a decent top 6; and the bowling attack as named rounds out a fairly decent XI.  I'd have Carlos Brathwaite as the reserve all-rounder/bowler; coming in for Bishoo when the wickets aren't conducive to his work.  Reserve pace bowling is thin, it's true.

Great point on the bowlers generally being stiffed by their batters frequent inability to bat for a decent length of time. That repeated scenario must not only wear the body but also begin to take its toll mentally, along the lines of 'Why should I break my back as I know these guys are going to throw our innings down the toilet anyway'. Hopefully the 2nd test result and a few periods of play in the other tests when they were genuinely competitive should give them cause for optimism.

For me, I'd not let the Bravo's back in. A number of reasons a) don't think either of them are or ever were that great, or certainly not as great as their conduct suggests they are and b) loyalty - and there's two cuts of that, one is where is their loyalty? When their country is in dire straits they're out there making hay for themselves so now the corner may be turning, slowly perhaps but turning, they should not be able to stroll back in. The other is loyalty to the young guns who have endured a miserable time of it, they've kept their shoulder to the wheel and should be given a chance to enjoy a period of (hopefully) increased competitiveness and the career satisfaction that brings. The exclusion of those two goes for a lot of the other guns for hire - Gayle, Pollard, Samuels. I wouldn't even give them a run in the team in the ODI/T20 stuff. Their attitude stinks and I'd keep them well clear of this core.

I would perhaps cut some slack, as they could have the talent and potential for a long future in them, for Carlos Brathwaite and Andre Russell - if they could be convinced to commit to test cricket they could be useful all-rounder options, no?

And whatever happened to Jerome Taylor? At one point I thought he could be really good. Injuries? Gave up giving a toss and went for the easy money?

A few players here and there and they could begin to compete more regularly.

Jerome Taylor apparently retired from Tests last year but then made himself available again this April... presumably not considered though.

Surprises me that he's only 33, seems a very long time since he first came on the scene.

beamer wrote:Jerome Taylor apparently retired from Tests last year but then made himself available again this April... presumably not considered though.

Surprises me that he's only 33, seems a very long time since he first came on the scene.

33 - well unless he's phyiscally busted or gone to seed he should have some years left in him. Especially as he hasn't presumably been playing long form cricket solidly for a wee while.

I recall him having spells where he looked the business. Good pace and bounce and able to swing it. Add him to the other 3 pacers and you've got a decent attack, all of them different too.

Lindsay no.2 wrote:

beamer wrote:Jerome Taylor apparently retired from Tests last year but then made himself available again this April... presumably not considered though.

Surprises me that he's only 33, seems a very long time since he first came on the scene.

33 - well unless he's phyiscally busted or gone to seed he should have some years left in him. Especially as he hasn't presumably been playing long form cricket solidly for a wee while.

I recall him having spells where he looked the business. Good pace and bounce and able to swing it. Add him to the other 3 pacers and you've got a decent attack, all of them different too.

Yeah, I'd have guessed him at 36 or 37. Made his debut in both international formats in 2003 (around the time England introduced the world to T20...)