The search for a new Trescothick.

I'm of the opinion that we need to find a new attacking opener. Mainly because Trescothick was absolutely crucial to our run of success. Not only was he a positive, attacking player who started every innings well and didn't let the bowlers settle, he also brought the best out of his opening partner. While Trescothick was an attacking front foot driver, Strauss was a back foot cutter and puller (at least early on) and bowlers found it difficult to bowl to them. In fact, Trescothick was a bit like Hayden in that he gave the side momentum (see Tresco's first morning knock at Edgbaston, probably the defining innings of the series, or one of them) and helped his opening partner just by being so completely different to him.

I'm not sure Cook and Strauss will work. They're both left handers and they can both get bogged down, though Strauss is a faster scorer than Cook. I don't think Vaughan and Cook or Vaughan and Strauss is a perfect solution either. Vaughan is capable of opening and the fact that he's right handed is useful but it must be incredibly hard to be the captain all day in the field and then come straight in to bat. Always being "switched on" with no down time must have some sort of an effect. Atherton mentioned how difficult it is to open and captain during the NZ series.

So, my question is, where's our new Trescothick? An aggressive front foot basher with shots all around the wicket? Can anyone identify one in county cricket? Perhaps Carberry? He's a bit of a dasher isn't he? He scored over 1,000 runs at 50.8 and hit 5 centuries last season. I seem to remember he scored 120 off 158 balls vs Worcestershire.

Anyone else think we need a new opener? Perhaps we should give Cook a season back in CC and give Carberry or Key (though he's more back foot isn't he?) a go.

Thoughts?

Agree the balance isn't right but not convinced myself that Carberry will be any better than Cook...

Key, he can be the English Sniffy given half a chance.

He did pretty well with the Lions. If not him, then who? Perhaps we could open with Ramps.

Cook isn't going to be dropped. He's the bright young thing from a public school who has FEC written all over him

What's your team for the Saffies, JKL? I'm finding that Fred, god like as he is, is completely messing up my team. Do I play Fred, Sidey, Hoggy, Monty and Tremlett and weaken our on/off batting or do I play Fred as one of four bowlers and drop one of the bowlers? And if I do go for four bowlers, who gets dropped? Tremlett/Broad or Hoggard?

The top order isn't right either because of the problems I posted in my first post. I'd also like to play Ramps (I think he'd be awesome in home conditions) but who gets dropped?

The trouble is my team doesn't include Fred at 6 in a 5 man attack and yet I know this is the way the selectors are going to go...

Fred, SideBo, Broad, Monty for me but i'd be changing that if Hoggy shows decent form in the CC

What happened to Denly? He played a fast innings last year against us, right?

And I wouldn't drop Cook, he's class.

Quick scoring attacking player with an undistinguished county record...that'll be Scott Newman.

Good as (although not quite as good as people are making out) Tresco was, a pinch hitter's not necessarily essential in test cricket. At their best Strauss and Vaughan are more than capable of playing a few shots early doors. Mind you if they're on that steady downhill slope to oblivion that's a worry. I guess the likes of Key and Carberry are the next cabs of the rank...but i'd be surprised if either ended up having successful test careers.

Cook looks dreadfully limited and flawed as a batsman and could still be an all time England great.

By and large when functioning, England's opening pairs compare quite favourably with most of the rest of the world. NZ, Pakistan, Windies, SL...no decent opening batsmen there, India's when not scoring triple centuries can be pretty dicey too.

Doremi - Aye, but he is struggling at the moment. He's got some technical problems and doesn't really work with Strauss.

Interesting that Cook averages 41 (and falling) when opening and 53 when at 3. I mentioned this on another thread after the NZ series but no-one seemed to be interested.


Eric -

Aye, Vaughan can open but don't you think it's very difficult to captain and open? There's only Chris Gayle at the moment who does both and he's only just got the job.

I doubt people were that enthused about Vaughan or Tresco when they were picked either. Carberry's form has been very good though.

Being a frontline player of any description and captaining isn't easy. If he gets out early (as he tends to do) then he has all the time in the world to recharge his mental batteries. I can understand the captaincy lopping a few runs off the average but I don't see why an opening batsman by trade should have to drop down the order. Athers carried the side for while with the bat in the first few years he captained England, Smith does well enough for South Africa and I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.

Vaughan was always touted as someone who had the technique and general game to play test cricket, if not the first class runs. Tresco was a bit leftfield but was a serious youth prodigy and had a successful ODI audition.

Think there's a definite case for parachuting Carberry into the ODI team in place of Cook at the top of the order. Always very stylish when played for the 'rey and had an aura about him, but not the runs by and large.

Aye, can't really understand why Cook's in the ODI side.

He's not a ODI player by any stretch.

Didn't even get picked by Essex for our trophy games until last year...

Apropo of nothing to do with Cook and one dayers, I remember not long before Trescothick go the 'call', Somerset had almost given up on his batting and were turning him into an all-rounder. So corners can be turned, and that applies to everyone out there I'd like to think...even Mike Yardy and Nazi war criminals.

Eric Air Emu wrote:even Mike Yardy and Nazi war criminals.

I'm ok with the Nazi war criminals, but not sure i'd push it as far as Yardy...

If the selectors go down the path of looking for a new Trescothick, then we are in for a decade like the one that followed Beefy's retirement, while we looked in vain for his successor. The truth is there isn't a ready-made replacement for Tresco.

doremi wrote:What happened to Denly? He played a fast innings last year against us, right?

And I wouldn't drop Cook, he's class.

Was only Denly's first full season in FC cricket - and he didn't find the going easy when he toured India with the Lions.

Too early to really judge him.

An inconsistent opening batsman averaging just above 40? We'll never see the like again.

Amazing how retirement changes people's perceptions of players.

Thorpe for instance is now an English god, but when he was alive he was just a solid dependable middle order batsman.

Eric Air Emu wrote:

Thorpe for instance is now an English god, but when he was alive he was just a solid dependable middle order batsman.

Really? On many occasions I heard him refered to as our best batsman in the team. And this at the time that Vaughan was tearing up the Aussies...

More like one of the best openers in the world averaging mid 40s.

From 2004-2006 he averaged 52 and we played nearly everybody.

Eric Air Emu wrote:

Thorpe for instance is now an English god, but when he was alive he was just a solid dependable middle order batsman.

Thorpe was better than that - averaged 45 in a time when barely any other England bats averaged even 40.

He was our best player of that era.

Yeah Eric, don't you go slagging off Thorpe. You'll be the sin-guh-uh-uh-uhl holder of that viewpoint. These words are my own.

JKLever wrote:

Eric Air Emu wrote:

Thorpe for instance is now an English god, but when he was alive he was just a solid dependable middle order batsman.

Really? On many occasions I heard him refered to as our best batsman in the team. And this at the time that Vaughan was tearing up the Aussies...

He was close to sublime in patches (absolute highpoint was the winter England beat Pakistan and SL)...but for a time he was the original Ian Bell not converting 50s into tons and he was also out the team lots because of his massively overpublicised marriage problems. He wasn't the best batsman in the team for about half his career.

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:More like one of the best openers in the world averaging mid 40s.

From 2004-2006 he averaged 52 and we played nearly everybody.

43.

From 2004-2006 Andrew Strauss averaged about 50 too.

A decent run of form doesn't make someone one of the best openers in the world.

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:More like one of the best openers in the world averaging mid 40s.

From 2004-2006 he averaged 52 and we played nearly everybody.

Except Australia...