Will michael Vaughan play for England again?

Personally, I don't feel he will be back. Especially now since KP's captaincy skills are being raved about by all and sundry. Is Vaughan in top form worth a place in the side over the fact that he's an ex captain who will probably cramp KP's style?

Not unless he's making BIG runs in county cricket - he's said that much himself - he wants to get back to making 8 hour 160's etc....

Never say never.

Can he even bat for 8 hours without his knee blowing up on him?

Time will tell. If they don't he's got no chance...

I hope not. I think it's time for a new era and I also feel that Vaughan is past his best. He has never scored consistently in county cricket anyway, and hasn't shown anything yet (out for 10 today) to suggest he is going to. The team should be picked on merit though, so if he is among the top five batsmen in the country at some stage he should get a chance.

Having watched his dreamy batting in his golden year from 2002 to 2003 it would be wonderful to think that the lifting of the burden of captaincy from his shoulders might see him recapture even something vaguely reminiscent of that era.

If he did, he's got to be selected and he'd be a huge asset.

His problem is, as Gus has pointed out, that he has never made the volume of runs in County cricket that he'll need to force his way back into the side now. He was originally selected on the broader basis of what Duncan Fletcher had seen and liked in him, much like his opening partner during that most successful phase of his career, Tresco.

Ideally, you'd want him to come back and open as he still averages over 45 at the top of the order, and I'd have no qualms in turfing 'Last Chance Saloon' Strauss out if Vaughan does again find top form.

The problem is, a bit like Strauss, that his technique just looks shot to ribbons now, and in Vaughan's case he's so vulnerable to the moving ball early on that it's hard to ever imagine him succeeding against the best new ball bowlers again. That looks to be more than a mental thing that will simply evaporate without the strain of skippering the side.

Failing that, the spot where you might imagine him succeeding nowadays is down at number six safely away, in theory, from the moving ball when he comes to the crease but perhaps an ideal guy to have out in the middle, as a former opener, when the second new ball is taken and he's got his eye in.

But would England really recall a 34 year old in that position in the order? I doubt it.

Henry wrote:Is Vaughan in top form worth a place in the side

Since Vaughan in top form is by some distance our best batter, including KP, that's a RESOUNDING YES.

He really was unstoppable in 2002, wasn't he. He was pulling good length balls for six over square leg on a regular basis.

Henry wrote:He really was unstoppable in 2002, wasn't he. He was pulling good length balls for six over square leg on a regular basis.

Aye. Can still see it now in my mind's eye.

It would look like a slog by most batsmen, but Vaughan was doing it with sublime grace, gently pivoting on his back foot, raised front foot following the trajectory of the ball as it disappeared off into the stands.

Fantastic to watch.

Several prime examples from about 40 seconds on.

He will play.

I've thought it was unlikely ever since he announced he was quitting the captaincy a few weeks ago. It will be tough for him to make a statement with spectacular county form - Headingley isn't a batsman's ground for a start. Then there's the question of injuries, and whether he was never quite as good as we once thought but really just a reasonably decent batsman who had one spectacular year.

If they want a number 6 they will see it as an opportunity to introduce someone younger. The one bit of hope for him is the opening position, Strauss appears to be on borrowed time once again and there aren't exactly a queue of obvious candidates waiting to step in.

I sincerely hope not.

He's done well for England during his tenure, but all good things have to
come to an end, and let's face it, nudging those with short memories,
Vaughan DID outstay his sell-by date towards the end - subsequent
events have conclusively proven that to be the case.

So thanks for Ashes in 2005 and all those batting exhibitions of the past 6 years Vawney ol' son.
But stay across the Pennines and now leave KP to stamp his individual authority on
team members, tactics and the future development of the side.

IMO Vawn should immediately announce his retirement from international cricket,
do it graciously and FFS avoid creating a Ramprakash-esque clique who
will boringly keep demanding his return to the fold.

Michael Vaughan.
The End.

Big_Bad_Bob wrote:

The problem is, a bit like Strauss, that his technique just looks shot to ribbons now, and in Vaughan's case he's so vulnerable to the moving ball early on that it's hard to ever imagine him succeeding against the best new ball bowlers again. That looks to be more than a mental thing that will simply evaporate without the strain of skippering the side.

I don't think his technique is shot to ribbons, as you put it Bob. I remember his century against India last year where he looked just as ever, while everyone else couldn't lay a bat on the Indian bowlers. Even in his final Test innings he hit a couple of classy shots. I think the problem was mental, he was struggling to concentrate, to watch the ball and wasn't coming to the crease with a fresh mind and his full reserves of mental energy.

As regards the swing bowling - I think he's always been slightly vulnerable to this. I remember near the end of his 'golden patch' inbetween his tons at Melbourne, Sydney & Edgbaston he had a couple of dodgy innings against Heath Streak wobbling it about at 77mph, looked all over the place against rather tame bowling (Streak was well past his best by then). He tends to play his best on bouncy wickets and against seam rather than swing bowlers. The plus side, is when Vaughan gets in, he tends to cash in and score big centuries, in a way many of the other England batsmen never do.


As regards Winter tours, it would be a bit of a punt to pick him for India or the West Indies, but who knows? 3 of his 4 games for Yorkshire are at Scarborough which is a fast scoring, batsman friendly ground. It certainly isn't worth writing him off because of one bad score against Kent.

Gary 111 wrote:

I don't think his technique is shot to ribbons, as you put it Bob. I remember his century against India last year where he looked just as ever, while everyone else couldn't lay a bat on the Indian bowlers. Even in his final Test innings he hit a couple of classy shots. I think the problem was mental, he was struggling to concentrate, to watch the ball and wasn't coming to the crease with a fresh mind and his full reserves of mental energy.

As regards the swing bowling - I think he's always been slightly vulnerable to this. I remember near the end of his 'golden patch' inbetween his tons at Melbourne, Sydney & Edgbaston he had a couple of dodgy innings against Heath Streak wobbling it about at 77mph, looked all over the place against rather tame bowling (Streak was well past his best by then). He tends to play his best on bouncy wickets and against seam rather than swing bowlers. The plus side, is when Vaughan gets in, he tends to cash in and score big centuries, in a way many of the other England batsmen never do.


As regards Winter tours, it would be a bit of a punt to pick him for India or the West Indies, but who knows? 3 of his 4 games for Yorkshire are at Scarborough which is a fast scoring, batsman friendly ground. It certainly isn't worth writing him off because of one bad score against Kent.

Ahhh, a rational head amongst some bawdy cock-knocking.

Gary 111 wrote:

Big_Bad_Bob wrote:

The problem is, a bit like Strauss, that his technique just looks shot to ribbons now, and in Vaughan's case he's so vulnerable to the moving ball early on that it's hard to ever imagine him succeeding against the best new ball bowlers again. That looks to be more than a mental thing that will simply evaporate without the strain of skippering the side.

I don't think his technique is shot to ribbons, as you put it Bob. I remember his century against India last year where he looked just as ever, while everyone else couldn't lay a bat on the Indian bowlers. Even in his final Test innings he hit a couple of classy shots. I think the problem was mental, he was struggling to concentrate, to watch the ball and wasn't coming to the crease with a fresh mind and his full reserves of mental energy.

As regards the swing bowling - I think he's always been slightly vulnerable to this. I remember near the end of his 'golden patch' inbetween his tons at Melbourne, Sydney & Edgbaston he had a couple of dodgy innings against Heath Streak wobbling it about at 77mph, looked all over the place against rather tame bowling (Streak was well past his best by then). He tends to play his best on bouncy wickets and against seam rather than swing bowlers. The plus side, is when Vaughan gets in, he tends to cash in and score big centuries, in a way many of the other England batsmen never do.


As regards Winter tours, it would be a bit of a punt to pick him for India or the West Indies, but who knows? 3 of his 4 games for Yorkshire are at Scarborough which is a fast scoring, batsman friendly ground. It certainly isn't worth writing him off because of one bad score against Kent.

Yep - I remember the century against India too...I was sat in the stands watching it. Beautiful.

I just think he's gone backwards since then.

Maybe his problem is purely mental - I genuinely hope so, and that he can sort them out with some big knocks for Yorkshire.

I just fear that at 34 by the next time he has an opportunity to pull on an England shirt, those mental scars are going to run permanently across his technique for whatever remains of his career.

Would love to be wrong though.

Big_Bad_Bob wrote:I just fear that at 34 by the next time he has an opportunity to pull on an England shirt, those mental scars are going to run permanently across his technique for whatever remains of his career.

Would love to be wrong though.

He's not a pussy though IMO, Bob. He's nowhere near in the Rampshickbell class. He's always had that extra grit that sets him apart from many.

Fair point. Fingers crossed.

What is Vaughan's first class average? What reason to think he can consistantly score bigger than Key, Shah possibly Bopara on the domestic circuit?

spangler wrote:What is Vaughan's first class average? What reason to think he can consistantly score bigger than Key, Shah possibly Bopara on the domestic circuit?

Pretty crud.

37.51 overall.

Take out his Test runs, and the balance of his FC games have produced a shade over 10000 runs at 35.65.

How far can you big up a bloke who, apart from one great 18-month period, averages 30+?


Cock-knocking en masse . . . .

In First Class matches for Yorkshire he's scored 8,970 runs at 37.06 in 143 matches, including 20 centuries.

In the List A stuff he has 4,676 runs from 177 matches at an average of 29.40, with 3 centuries.

tac wrote:How far can you big up a bloke who, apart from one great 18-month period, averages 30+?


Cock-knocking en masse . . . .

Got it in one.

He captained the Ashes winning side in 2005 and was
a prolific run scorer for 18 months prior to that.

BUT THAT WAS 4 YEARS AGO, FFS.

Jesus, if only some people on here would stop wallowing in Vaughan's past deeds by
desperately clinging onto shreds of "what ifs" ... "maybes" and ..."beautiful cover drives"...

The guy's history ... leave it that way.

Frankly, given a choice, I'd bring Thorpey (if he hadn't packed the game in) back into
Team England ahead of Vaughan any day. Solid, dependable despite not being as pretty.

you guys bring back vawny and we'll bring back the Don...ie both are a long time gawn

Big_Bad_Bob wrote:Several prime examples from about 40 seconds on.

Bloody hell, I'm dehydrated. I just came and cried at the same time.

Best. Video. Ever.