Don't want to sound like Sunny but.....

it seems that the rules of what is allowed and NOT allowed to be said on the field are made by ONLY keeping the western culture in mind e.g a word motherfluffer in IND/PAK is considered as bad if not WORSE than any racist comments like the use of the word monkey,Ni^@#$ etc. Looking at the current rules if a player calls some one mother fluffer then at WORST he is fined 50% of the match fee yet a racist comment means a 3 or 4 match ban.
Thats just not right IMO. There should simply be a 2 match ban on players using filthy language more than once in the game.

p.s I am not defending GG, HS or the BCCI for their actions but there is certainly an immediate need to change the "rules".

PP

Perhaps the Code of Conduct was written by a 'Westerner' who doesnt fully understand 'non Western' culture ...however there are enough 'non westerners' in prominent positions in the ICC who could advise that the Code is inadequate in these areas ... The Code exists , no matter how wrong it is , and the players have to play by it ...I think Oz players are 'experts' at sledging to the maximum allowed by the Code (with an occasional breach) ...

How can motherfluffer (like it!) be considered worse than racist abuse?

Just look on an Indo/Pak youtube video and it and words like it are used to insult each other all the time...

embee wrote:PP

Perhaps the Code of Conduct was written by a 'Westerner' who doesnt fully understand 'non Western' culture ...however there are enough 'non westerners' in prominent positions in the ICC who could advise that the Code is inadequate in these areas ... The Code exists , no matter how wrong it is , and the players have to play by it ...I think Oz players are 'experts' at sledging to the maximum allowed by the Code (with an occasional breach) ...

Very valid point and yes they must look in to it.

JKLever wrote:How can motherfluffer (like it!) be considered worse than racist abuse?

Just look on an Indo/Pak youtube video and it and words like it are used to insult each other all the time...

In Pakistan/Ind Christians and blacks are given a very hard time. In Pakistan we use words like "churras" some times even in front of the Christians and i can guarantee you that a Pakistani Christian will get MORE upset at being called a motherfluffer than a churra.

Is it wrong? obviously it is and we should try do something about against this verbal(and in some cases physical) abuse against the minorities but as of now thats how it is. Whats even more disgusting is that we fully respect the foreign Christians with a white skin yet don't treat OUR PEOPLE (the local Christians/blacks) the same way.

main problem is that we don't KNOW that we are doing any thing wrong while calling some one a churra or some other racist comment.

PP

Does that mean that Harby was intending to be actually more insulting than racially insulting when he called Symonds a "monkey/maan ki"?

embee wrote:PP

Does that mean that Harby was intending to be actually more insulting than racially insulting when he called Symonds a "monkey/maan ki"?

don't know about Bhajji because he was already severely warned in ODI series in IND

I remember one of the match ref decided to NOT punish the Aussies for verbal abuse because he thought it was very difficult for the Aussies to stop cursing(correct me if i am wrong)

That approach is TOTALLY wrong and BOTH kinds of abuse should be severely punished.

PlanetPakistan wrote:

embee wrote:PP

Perhaps the Code of Conduct was written by a 'Westerner' who doesnt fully understand 'non Western' culture ...however there are enough 'non westerners' in prominent positions in the ICC who could advise that the Code is inadequate in these areas ... The Code exists , no matter how wrong it is , and the players have to play by it ...I think Oz players are 'experts' at sledging to the maximum allowed by the Code (with an occasional breach) ...

Very valid point and yes they must look in to it.

JKLever wrote:How can motherfluffer (like it!) be considered worse than racist abuse?

Just look on an Indo/Pak youtube video and it and words like it are used to insult each other all the time...

In Pakistan/Ind Christians and blacks are given a very hard time. In Pakistan we use words like "churras" some times even in front of the Christians and i can guarantee you that a Pakistani Christian will get MORE upset at being called a motherfluffer than a churra.

Is it wrong? obviously it is and we should try do something about against this verbal(and in some cases physical) abuse against the minorities but as of now thats how it is. Whats even more disgusting is that we fully respect the foreign Christians with a white skin yet don't treat OUR PEOPLE (the local Christians/blacks) the same way.

Only in Pakistan I'm afraid .. only in Pakistan.

PlanetPakistan wrote:main problem is that we don't KNOW that we are doing any thing wrong while calling some one a churra or some other racist comment.

problem is not with the code of conduct .. the problem is with racist adjudicators like Mike Deaness, Mike Proctor, and Chris Broad.

these people are products of a bygone and racist era .. and they will continue to sell the only wares that they have.

i made this point sometime last year. there is no reason why abuse should be allowed in cricket - personal, racist, whatever. the laws as they were laid down may be framed keeping in mind anglo sensibilities, but now a large number of the countries belong to other cultures for whom personal abuse is probably not as acceptable as in anglo societies

cut out personal abuse and you will see a lot less of its manifestations in forms of threatened or actual physical contact

PlanetPakistan wrote:main problem is that we don't KNOW that we are doing any thing wrong while calling some one a churra or some other racist comment.

That sounds like the GG excuse.

PlanetPakistan wrote:it seems that the rules of what is allowed and NOT allowed to be said on the field are made by ONLY keeping the western culture in mind e.g a word motherfluffer in IND/PAK is considered as bad if not WORSE than any racist comments like the use of the word monkey,Ni^@#$ etc. Looking at the current rules if a player calls some one mother fluffer then at WORST he is fined 50% of the match fee yet a racist comment means a 3 or 4 match ban.
Thats just not right IMO. There should simply be a 2 match ban on players using filthy language more than once in the game.

p.s I am not defending GG, HS or the BCCI for their actions but there is certainly an immediate need to change the "rules".

Wasn't Harby's excuse from Sydney that he called Symonds a "mother..." rather than a "monkey".

The One wrote:i made this point sometime last year. there is no reason why abuse should be allowed in cricket - personal, racist, whatever. the laws as they were laid down may be framed keeping in mind anglo sensibilities, but now a large number of the countries belong to other cultures for whom personal abuse is probably not as acceptable as in anglo societies

cut out personal abuse and you will see a lot less of its manifestations in forms of threatened or actual physical contact

Point well made.
The Aussies are all saints according to captain Pointing. (Today's cricinfo)

I don't get this personal abuse is frowned upon in our culture BS, I think it's weak.

I remember last England test in India the England team were abused most of the game by sections of the crowd.

And have had things thrown at them. Where was this so-called respect for others then?

Go on any indian forum where you can mingle with Pak fans and theres endless personal abuse.

Sreesanth & Zaheer Khan give endless gip out on the field. Harbajhan told KP to 'fark off' on stumpcam on our last tour.

Weak excuse that 'we don't know we're doing anything wrong.'

Weak,weak,weak.....

*Buckaroo* wrote:
Only in Pakistan I'm afraid .. only in Pakistan.

This more or less proves you're not Indian.

doremi wrote:

*Buckaroo* wrote:
Only in Pakistan I'm afraid .. only in Pakistan.

This more or less proves you're not Human

Fixed.

JKLever wrote:

doremi wrote:

*Buckaroo* wrote:
Only in Pakistan I'm afraid .. only in Pakistan.

This more or less proves you're not Human

Fixed.

Boeta?

Anybody who doesn't understand why swear words have much less wrong with them in terms of an insult is thick as shit. Anybody can be a qunt, it's non-discriminatory. However racial insults not only have historical connotations, they also have more than an element of villification by selection of race.

That's morally wrong, much moreso than a simple swearing insult. I CGAF about what an individual team or region find more insulting. One is more inherently wrong than the other.

JKLever wrote:I don't get this personal abuse is frowned upon in our culture BS, I think it's weak.

I remember last England test in India the England team were abused most of the game by sections of the crowd.

And have had things thrown at them. Where was this so-called respect for others then?

Go on any indian forum where you can mingle with Pak fans and theres endless personal abuse.

Sreesanth & Zaheer Khan give endless gip out on the field. Harbajhan told KP to 'fark off' on stumpcam on our last tour.

Weak excuse that 'we don't know we're doing anything wrong.'

Weak,weak,weak.....

does any of that make it right? i cant imagine any other work-place allowing a torrent of personal abuse while one is doing their work, just like they would not allow racial or sexist abuse

the excuse that racist remarks are ok in our culture or not as bad is weak indeed, esp when you have been sensitised to it. totally agree

It is weak, yet also it's worse, it's playing dumb. F*ck your individual culture. Anyone with a shread of emotional intellect/social conscience/moral fibre can see how inordinately different they are.

You are, as ever, picturesquely articulate. A unique specimen of a mule that passes an examination on ignorance with utmost ease and distinction.

JKLever and BM,
I know that it is difficult for you guys to fully understand the issue.

Just ask your IND/Pakistani mates who grew up in IND or PAK and i am sure they will tell you almost the exact same thing.

edit

Brass Monkey wrote: Anybody who doesn't understand why swear words have much less wrong with them in terms of an insult is thick as shit. Anybody can be a qunt, it's non-discriminatory. However racial insults not only have historical connotations, they also have more than an element of villification by selection of race.

That's morally wrong, much moreso than a simple swearing insult. I CGAF about what an individual team or region find more insulting. One is more inherently wrong than the other.

See there you go...

Mother Fluffer in IND/PAK is anything BUT a "simple" swear word. Its just about the worst thing that you can say.

I know if i had ever used that kind of language against ANY ONE(including minorities)my parents would have kicked me out of the house YET it was NOT as big a deal if i called the same person a churra.