Rebuilding the England bowling attack

by Guest Sun 22 Feb 2009, 13:37

OK, they've been TAYPOC for the last three years. Jimmy and Monty flattered to deceive. What to do? Broad looks to be developing fast as a bowler. Swann has a good aggressive attitude, maxinmizing his stock of talent like Dermott Reeve used to, though I expect he'll go the way of all England spinners - good for 18-24 months before getting worked out by the international batters. That would still keep him in the side for a while though. I reckon SiBo will lead the attack in England (and NZ), Broad should get the new ball with him from now on, Fred should play as "enforcer" bowler but batting at seven from now on. Jimmy and Harami should be dumped forever, and Monty too until he shows signs of developing a cricket brain.

Who else?

by bliksem Sun 22 Feb 2009, 13:40

What happened to Sidebottom? The selectors seem to have done a Hoggard on him.

by Basil Sun 22 Feb 2009, 14:01

bliksem wrote:What happened to Sidebottom? The selectors seem to have done a Hoggard on him.

He has fitness issues, which have blunted his effectiveness.

by eowyn Sun 22 Feb 2009, 14:02

He was injured, bliks. He's a bit prone to it. Plus he's a bit different. To be honest I really am starting to think you only get a place in the England team if "your face fits" or they're desperate and try someone new for a few games.

I'm hoping they play Rashid in this next test, he gets carted and he gets dropped so he can play for Yorkshire for the coming season. If he does well he'll get picked for the home tests, get used rarely or inappropriately, and become mediocre.

by Basil Sun 22 Feb 2009, 14:16

Hoggard - might be worth having another look at - he will have had a winter off, so he should be well rested.

Sajid Mahmood - has pace and reverse swing

Amjad Khan - supposed to be able to bowl 90 mph howitzers, which is certainly more than he was doing before his back injury

Kabir Ali - Mr Consistency as far as WCCC are concerned, a more mature player than when he last got a cap

Chris Tremlett - would be a hell of a player if he could stay out of the wheelchair long enough

Simon Jones - a shoo-in for the Ashes if he can stay fit (but that's a big if

Robbie Joseph - well liked in England circles apparently. One decent season thus far

Adil Rashid - the best (only?) leggie available to us

Graham Swann - better so far than I dared to hope

Monty Panesar - flat-lining in terms of development at the moment. Hopefully a temporary blip.

Liam Dawson - not yet maybe, but give it a couple of years

by embee Sun 22 Feb 2009, 14:24

Darren Pattinson?

by Guest Sun 22 Feb 2009, 14:42

I wish Joe Dawes was available.

by Guest Sun 22 Feb 2009, 14:47

There's a theme running through all of this - Fitness and lack of it.

Why can't bowlers stay fit these days? These guys are playing less cricket than any previous generation yet seem to get injured more. I'm sorry but Harmison does nothing for ages and rolls up in WI with a few extra lbs around his waist and looks very sluggish in the field. Thats just not good enough.

by embee Sun 22 Feb 2009, 14:52

Rob I wrote:I wish Joe Dawes was available.

Make him an offer ...he'll be a young 42 when he qualifies

by Big_Bad_Bob Sun 22 Feb 2009, 15:10

Basil wrote:Hoggard - might be worth having another look at - he will have had a winter off, so he should be well rested.

Sajid Mahmood - has pace and reverse swing

Amjad Khan - supposed to be able to bowl 90 mph howitzers, which is certainly more than he was doing before his back injury

Kabir Ali - Mr Consistency as far as WCCC are concerned, a more mature player than when he last got a cap

Chris Tremlett - would be a hell of a player if he could stay out of the wheelchair long enough

Simon Jones - a shoo-in for the Ashes if he can stay fit (but that's a big if

Robbie Joseph - well liked in England circles apparently. One decent season thus far

Adil Rashid - the best (only?) leggie available to us

Graham Swann - better so far than I dared to hope

Monty Panesar - flat-lining in terms of development at the moment. Hopefully a temporary blip.

Liam Dawson - not yet maybe, but give it a couple of years

Bresnan?

Tall, built like an ox, gets it down at good pace, and can bat.

by Basil Sun 22 Feb 2009, 15:19

Big_Bad_Bob wrote:

Bresnan?

Tall, built like an ox, gets it down at good pace, and can bat.

Hadn't given him a thought tbh. Yeah why not, he's certainly improving.

by MidnightCowboy Sun 22 Feb 2009, 15:20

Take your pick from the bowlers who have played for the Academy/Lions
(not including Tests figures or all rounders)

66 matches 223 wickets at 21.17 econ 2.79 s/r 45.3 - Davies
109 matches 335 wickets at 25.32 econ 2.81 s/r 54.0 - Sidebottom
53 matches 189 wickets at 25.80 econ 3.33 s/r 46.3 - Anderson
107 matches 413 wickets at 26.38 econ 3.57 s/r 44.33 - Ali
111 matches 395 wickets at 26.59 econ 3.10 s/r 51.3 - Harmison
179 matches 618 wickets at 26.79 econ 3.03 s/r 53.04 - Lewis
37 matches 129 wickets at 26.93 econ 3.59 s/r 46.2 - Broad
82 matches 262 wickets at 27.98 econ 3.26 s/r 51.4 - Tremlett
69 matches 268 wickets at 28.10 econ 3.23 s/r 52.2 - Shreck
102 matches 303 wickets at 28.84 econ 2.86 s/r 60.3 - Richardson
102 matches 364 wickets at 29.17 econ 3.47 s/r 50.3 - Kirby
115 matches 319 wickets at 30.22 econ 3.59 s/r 50.4 - Tudor
59 matches 179 wickets at 30.76 econ 3.71 s/r 49.68 - Plunkett
58 matches 165 wickets at 31.15 econ 3.64 s/r 51.3 - Mahmood
70 matches 201 wickets at 31.24 econ 3.70 s/r 53.6 - Jones
63 matches 211 wickets at 31.39 econ 3.89 s/r 48.3 - Khan
39 matches 115 wickets at 31.59 econ 3.64 s/r 52.0 - Joseph
54 matches 153 wickets at 33.85 econ 3.74 s/r 54.2 - Onions
82 matches 200 wickets at 36.75 econ 3.43 s/r 64.1 - Harrison

by eowyn Sun 22 Feb 2009, 15:20

No he isn't. He's just a good county pro, nothing more.

That's about Bresnan.

by MidnightCowboy Sun 22 Feb 2009, 15:27

When it comes to all rounders Clare should be ready after another season.

by beamer Sun 22 Feb 2009, 15:42

A lot of those on that list aren't particularly young either are they? Nothing wrong with picking a bowler around the age of 30 to fill a short-term gap in the side, but if you're looking to develop an attack for the long term you need to be looking beyond those players, if they were that good they would have 200 Test wickets to their name by now.

by JKLever Sun 22 Feb 2009, 17:17

If we lose this series, which is a possibility given the current bowling attack then we need to rethink a strategy for the next 2-3 years.

Broad & Swann look like they could hold down a place. Swann isn't going to trash any teams but you can't say Monty is either atm and he'll at least do as good a job as Gilo ever did.

Flintoff is obviously a cert providing he is fit but we'll need to bowl him as shock bowler rather than stock bowler in future.

I still think Sidders is a decent test bowler when bowling with nip at 82-4mph because of the variety he offers but this 78 mph garbage isn't good enough.

So... in an ideal all fit world.

Sidebottom,Broad,Flintoff,Swann

We have to get shot of Anderson & Harmison imo, both of whom have been mince for too long when conditions don't suit them.

leaves a place open for an other. Whoever that may be

by MidnightCowboy Sun 22 Feb 2009, 18:15

Well I'll pick 10 bowlers for the future. Very Happy

Some injury prone, some not that fast, some inexperienced.
Rashid as the spinner.

M Davies
S Jones
K Ali
J Anderson
S Broad
S Meaker
C Woakes
J Harris
S Finn
R Williams

by JKLever Sun 22 Feb 2009, 18:27

MidnightCowboy wrote:Well I'll pick 10 bowlers for the future. Some injury prone, some not that fast, some inexperienced.
Rashid as the spinner.

M Davies Too much of a home conditions bowler? Never fit
S Jones permanently unfit
K Ali A bit too Saj Mahmood for my liking
J Anderson BAGE
S Broad
S Meaker Too saffie, probably bowled one 96ph ball in his career and is an 82mph trundler
C Woakes PROSPECT! Though needs a bit more pace
J Harris A bit too Welsh to be any good
S Finn PROSPECT! Needs the middlesex knocked out of him though
R Williams Que?

by DJ_Smerk Sun 22 Feb 2009, 19:28

I reckon James Harris would be a good prospect. Saj Mahmood would not be a good prospect.

by LeFromage Sun 22 Feb 2009, 20:31

James Harris is nothing. Some weedy medium-pacer.

Nothing.

He's the new Paul Franks.

by DJ_Smerk Sun 22 Feb 2009, 20:41

Dello wrote:James Harris is nothing. Some weedy medium-pacer.

Nothing.

He's the new Paul Franks.

What a mature response. If he was English your mind would change sufficiently.

by LeFromage Sun 22 Feb 2009, 20:42

MidnightCowboy wrote:Well I'll pick 10 bowlers for the future. Some injury prone, some not that fast, some inexperienced.
Rashid as the spinner.

M Davies
S Jones
K Ali
J Anderson
S Broad
S Meaker
C Woakes
J Harris
S Finn
R Williams

Anderson? A bowler for the future? He's played in nearly 150 international matches - and the majority of those performances have been a disgrace.

He's not getting better, is he? Not even a little bit. So how, at almost 27, and with all that international experience under his belt, can he be "one for the future"?

He's one for the here and now. And he's crap.

Williams - never heard of him.
Harris - weedy nothing.
Finn - lanky nothing.
Meaker - how can anyone have an opinion about him when he's only played one FC match?
Woakes - looks a good player in the making.

Ali, Jones, Davies - meh shrug

by LeFromage Sun 22 Feb 2009, 20:44

DJ_Smerk wrote:
Dello wrote:James Harris is nothing. Some weedy medium-pacer.

Nothing.

He's the new Paul Franks.

What a mature response. If he was English your mind would change sufficiently.

Well, that's a mature response to my mature response.

You're right - he's not a weedy medium-pacer nothing bowler. I've made that up because I'm a racist.

by DJ_Smerk Sun 22 Feb 2009, 20:48

Dello wrote:
DJ_Smerk wrote:
Dello wrote:James Harris is nothing. Some weedy medium-pacer.

Nothing.

He's the new Paul Franks.

What a mature response. If he was English your mind would change sufficiently.

Well, that's a mature response to my mature response.

You're right - he's not a weedy medium-pacer nothing bowler. I've made that up because I'm a racist.

Maybe I've got "Home-boy" syndrome, favouring the local guys. I suppose we can just wait and see. He's only 18. He could be like James Anderson in a few years.

by LeFromage Sun 22 Feb 2009, 20:51

DJ_Smerk wrote:He could be like James Anderson in a few years.

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