Should England rest Flintoff at Headingley?

Well?

Pro's- England are ahead in the series. Although it would be nice to win, this test is not a MUST win game. Also, The Oval is likely to suit Flintoff more than Headingley. Headingley is renowned for conventional swing (something that Flintoff isn't very good at), whilst the Oval is renowned for having a quick, hard pitch that can encourage reverse swing (something that Flintoff is very good at).

Cons- If England lose at Headingley after resting Flintoff, they will face huge criticism. There could also be a mindset from England of trying to play for a draw, which often leads to a team being beaten. The pressure on Flintoff when he comes back at The Oval for a must win game would then be immense. England are arguably more likely to win at Headingley than at The Oval, so their strongest team could bring home the ashes there and then, making the Oval a dead rubber game.


Personally, I think England should bite the bullet and rest him at Headingley. Give him 3 weeks to recharge, and have him firing on all cylinders again at The Oval. A bowling attack of Anderson, Onions, and Sidebottom is ideal for Headingley, and if it swings, they have the ability to bowl out Aus themselves. The only worry would be the weakening of the batting.


Thoughts?

Hoggard
Anderson
Sidebottom
Onions
Swann

Can you imagine the angry vitriol spouting from all of Mudgekins orifices if Australia dared to 'rest' a player in the middle of a live series?

Play the strongest team at Leeds. More chance of a result there.

One game at a time, the next test is the most important.

DJ_Smerk wrote:Hoggard
Anderson
Sidebottom
Onions
Swann

5 out, all out...

JKLever wrote:Play the strongest team at Leeds. More chance of a result there.

One game at a time, the next test is the most important.

Yep.

Play him. If England win, SA go top.

Sadly, Hoggy is a busted flush. I doubt if there will be any changes for Headingley, health and fitness permitting.

Basil wrote:Sadly, Hoggy is a busted flush. I doubt if there will be any changes for Headingley, health and fitness permitting.

And nor should there. The batting, even with the dodgy top 5 looks decent enough as a unit because of the long tail.

Headingley is a notorious pitch where if the sun shines it'll be a road and the likes of sidebottom wont find swing. Bottom line is, if it does swing we've proved we can bowl Australia out in those conditions with the side we have, if it doesn't - we're going to get caned anyhow. But at least we won't have weakened one of the strongest areas of our team.

DJ_Smerk wrote:Hoggard
Anderson
Sidebottom
Onions
Swann

Swann at 7, Sid at 8?!

JKLever wrote:

Basil wrote:Sadly, Hoggy is a busted flush. I doubt if there will be any changes for Headingley, health and fitness permitting.

And nor should there. The batting, even with the dodgy top 5 looks decent enough as a unit because of the long tail.

Headingley is a notorious pitch where if the sun shines it'll be a road and the likes of sidebottom wont find swing. Bottom line is, if it does swing we've proved we can bowl Australia out in those conditions with the side we have, if it doesn't - we're going to get caned anyhow. But at least we won't have weakened one of the strongest areas of our team.

Exactly so. If it swings, Anderson and Onions have already demonstrated they're quite capable of bowling Australia out. If it doesn't, Sidebottom isn't going to make the difference.

The Oval is a postage stamp though. If you're off form you're pasted.

He didn't look himself, Fred. But he's better in the team than out.

Big_Bad_Bob wrote:

DJ_Smerk wrote:Hoggard
Anderson
Sidebottom
Onions
Swann

Swann at 7, Sid at 8?!

Can't see how having 3 swing bowlers, Jimmy, Onions AND SiBo in the make-up can benefit, because if it's dry, England will need a couple of "hit the deck hard" bowlers ... viz., Fred and, dare I say it without getting lynched on here, Harmi (for Broad).

TBH the more the dust settles, can't see any reason not to drop Swanneee in favour of a batsman.

Strauss; Cook; Key; Bopara; Bell; Collingwood; Prior; Fred; Jimmy; Harmison; Onions.

Merlin wrote:Can't see how having 3 swing bowlers, Jimmy, Onions AND SiBo in the make-up can benefit, because if it's dry, England will need a couple of "hit the deck hard" bowlers ... viz., Fred and, dare I say it without getting lynched on here, Harmi (for Broad).

TBH the more the dust settles, can't see any reason not to drop Swanneee in favour of a batsman.

Strauss; Cook; Key; Bopara; Bell; Collingwood; Prior; Fred; Jimmy; Harmison; Onions.

Leaving aside another "what's the point of Harmison?" comment, are you sure you'd want only four bowlers with a Flintoff who might break down during the Test? Without a spinner his workload would be very heavy too.

Well, it's a point sure ...
But I was more intent on stacking the batting down to 8 in order to bat the Aussies out of the game rather than try and bag 20 wickets with 3 and a half quicks (and, if he were playing, a limp spinner).
Two genuine swing and 1 and a half hard ball bowlers ... with respite from Colly and maybe Bopara.

Nah ... can't see it happening.
fact is, I'd rather we took this game to the distance and went to the Oval still 1 - 0 up, and the only way to do that is to stack the batting to the hilt.

Pretty negative though.

I'd have thought the best way to put Australia under pressure was to bowl them out. That's why 5 bowlers is usually the best option unless you have a Warne or McGrath.

Fred was knackered at Edgbaston and bowled shite. This after a week or so off. Anyone who thinks he's going to be better at Headingley is deluded - if he plays, England will be a worse team for it. Better to get him up to 90% for The Oval than to play him at 20% on Friday. Personally, I think he'll be ruled out in the next few days on the basis of fitness and rightly so.

4 and a half .. looks like Fred might be really struggling ... and Ponting's climbed onto that bandwagon

Chivalry Augustus wrote:Fred was knackered at Edgbaston and bowled shite. This after a week or so off. Anyone who thinks he's going to be better at Headingley is deluded

I'll be the deluded one. Thought his last spell was his best of the game.

He was sh!te at Cardiff and was better for the fact of going straight into the next test fitter.

JKLever wrote:

Chivalry Augustus wrote:Fred was knackered at Edgbaston and bowled shite. This after a week or so off. Anyone who thinks he's going to be better at Headingley is deluded

I'll be the deluded one. Thought his last spell was his best of the game.

He was sh!te at Cardiff and was better for the fact of going straight into the next test fitter.

He can't really practice between the tests, so the long break between 2nd and 3rd wouldn't have done him much good from the form perspective. Providing he's fit, it's not unreasonable to expect him to do better in the second of back to back tests.

Shoeshine wrote:Pretty negative though.

I'd have thought the best way to put Australia under pressure was to bowl them out. That's why 5 bowlers is usually the best option unless you have a Warne or McGrath.

Dunno, if Fred is out it means you can play 6 bats, then Prior and then choose your best 4 bowlers regardless of whether they bat.

Anderson,Onions,Sidebottom,Swann?

3 swing bowlers + Colly & even Trott if need be.

Darren Pattinson?

Get away with ye..