What is it with England players and double centuries?

Case and point from Cricinfo....

102.4


Mahmudullah to Cook, OUT, 45.8 mph, well, well, would you believe it...another long hop, Cook goes for the pull but completely mistimes his shot and lobs a gentle catch back to the bowler. What a way to go, and a double century has gone begging (and even a triple)


AN Cook c & b Mahmudullah 173 (283b 16x4 2x6) SR: 61.13

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/batting/most_runs_innings.html?class=1;id=200;team=1;type=decade


Five double centurions (KP, Key, Collingwood, Trescothick and Thorpe) in the 2000s. Compared to India (20 - included triples from Sehwag), Sri Lanka (20 plus a Jayawardene triple), Australia (12 - included Hayden's 380) and South Africa (9).

What are the reasons for such a sparsity in big scores. Lack of skill and temperament? Can't say it's the lack of cricket - considering England play the most cricket each year. Also, it's a bit of a shock that an England player hasn't been able to rack up at least one Triple century in the past decade. Who will top Gooch's 333 and when?

Who will top Gooch's 333 and when?

Ian 'Tinker' Bell, Boxing Day Test, Day 3.

Not enough games on the sub-continent if you look at the India and SL examples. This was Cook's highest score in test cricket so being in Asian conditions certainly helps.

When Cook got to 170 today I was going to ask how may captains have scored 200 on debut?

Highest score in first Test as captain:

239 GT Dowling NZ v Ind Christchurch 1967-68
191 C Hill Aus v SAf Sydney 1910-11


then Chef today.

DJ_Smerk wrote:Who will top Gooch's 333 and when?

Don't foget the 118 he also got in that match.

It was against a friendly Indian attack on the roadiest of roads, and the Duke balls used that summer had very little seam, compared to the Readers used the year before which looked like the planet Saturn. I'd be surprised if we see another innings like that. I don't think there has been a recent England player with Gooch's combination of skill, technique and temperament.

I'd be surprised if we see another innings like that. I don't think there has been a recent England player with Gooch's combination of skill, technique and temperament.

And yet it wasn't that long ago you called Thicko better than Gooch...odd...

skully wrote:Highest score in first Test as captain:

239 GT Dowling NZ v Ind Christchurch 1967-68
191 C Hill Aus v SAf Sydney 1910-11


then Chef today.

Thanks for that. I asked the question in the Banga v. Eng thread but noone answered it.

Pleasure AD. You can always resort to a "Hey skully" thread.

Can't guarantee I'll have an answer but I'll give it a shot.

DJ_Smerk wrote:Case and point from Cricinfo....

102.4


Mahmudullah to Cook, OUT, 45.8 mph, well, well, would you believe it...another long hop, Cook goes for the pull but completely mistimes his shot and lobs a gentle catch back to the bowler. What a way to go, and a double century has gone begging (and even a triple)


AN Cook c & b Mahmudullah 173 (283b 16x4 2x6) SR: 61.13

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/batting/most_runs_innings.html?class=1;id=200;team=1;type=decade


Five double centurions (KP, Key, Collingwood, Trescothick and Thorpe) in the 2000s. Compared to India (20 - included triples from Sehwag), Sri Lanka (20 plus a Jayawardene triple), Australia (12 - included Hayden's 380) and South Africa (9).

What are the reasons for such a sparsity in big scores. Lack of skill and temperament? Can't say it's the lack of cricket - considering England play the most cricket each year. Also, it's a bit of a shock that an England player hasn't been able to rack up at least one Triple century in the past decade. Who will top Gooch's 333 and when?

Probably a lot to do with the number of tests played on roads . . . .

Rob I wrote:

DJ_Smerk wrote:Who will top Gooch's 333 and when?

Don't foget the 118 he also got in that match.

It was against a friendly Indian attack on the roadiest of roads, and the Duke balls used that summer had very little seam, compared to the Readers used the year before which looked like the planet Saturn. I'd be surprised if we see another innings like that. I don't think there has been a recent England player with Gooch's combination of skill, technique and temperament.

He actually made 123 in England's second innings after Kapil Dev had avoided the follow-on by striking 4 6s in one over off Eddie Hemmings. Gooch's aggregate of 456 is the highest number of runs made by a Test batsman in a match (Lara of course batted only one innings). There were 6 centuries in the match - 2 by Gooch, 1 each by Lamb, Smith, Shastri and Azharuddin. All 5 bowlers in the Indian attack almost had 100+ runs taken off them in England's 1st innings with only Shastri spoiling the symmetry by having figures of 0-99 (he narrowly missed the feat of having 100 taken off him with the ball in one innings whilst scoring 100 with the bat in the next although his match figures were 0-137). All 4 main bowlers in England's attack (Malcolm, Fraser, Lewis and Hemmings) had 100+ runs taken off them in India's (considerably smaller) 1st innings reply with only the part-time bowling of Gooch (who bowled 6 overs for 26 although claiming the wicket of Manjrekar caught behind) that again spoilt the symmetry.

However I am sure that Gooch himself would be the first to concede that his feats at Lord's in that match pale into insignificance besides his 154* out of 252 (with only Ramprakash, Pringle and extras accompanying Gooch into double figures) at Headingley the following year on a seamer's paradise of a wicket in murky, overcast conditions against an attack consisting of Ambrose, Patterson, Walsh and Marshall which must go down as one of the most remarkable tours de force in the history of Test cricket setting up as it did an England win by 115 runs, the first against the Windies on home soil since they had beaten them on the same ground 22 years previously.

It was a remarkable innings by any standard as Gooch seemed to be utilising every scrap of knowledge and experience that he had garnered over his previous two decades of fc cricket and even the giants of the Golden Age, the Trumpers, Ranjis and Jessops would have surely doffed their caps in appreciation, bearing in mind the conditions and the quality of the attack he was facing.

Going in last on a "sticky dog" at Brisbane in December 1950 (in the days of uncovered pitches) England needed 193 to win after declaring their first innings closed on 68-7 and Australia had responded by closing their second innings on 32-7 (earlier they had made 228 when conditions were reasonable). Conditions were such that it was thought that the England batsmen would not detain the Australian attack of Lindwall, Johnston, Miller and Iverson for long. Hutton, sent in at No.8, made 62 out of 122 with only Freddie Brown, the captain, batting at 10, also making double figures with 17. Although in a losing cause Hutton's innings was, by common consent, one of the most remarkable in Test cricket. It was a masterpiece of hand-eye coordination by a man whose left arm had been shortened by a wartime accident and who had learnt his cricket on seaming wickets that would be impossible to replicate today.

The point of both these instances is that a player's highest score is seldom his best which is as much determined by the conditions (usually adverse) and the attack (usually hostile and menacing and of high quality). Gooch is remarkable for the fact that despite his unpromising beginning which resulted in a three-year exile from the Test arena (although Essex used the period to turn him from a flashy middle-order bat into a solid, if occasionally risky, opener) and a further three-year exile in the middle of his career due to a ban for leading a rebel tour to South Africa he still became England's highest run-scorer despite missing what was effectively six years of Test cricket.

It was said of Kenny Barrington that every time he went out to bat in a Test Match it seemed as if the Union Jack was fluttering behind him. The same might equally be said of Graham Alan Gooch.

TBF, we don't play the same amount of games in distinctly friendly batting conditions. That and the fact that, collectively, we have as much of an attention-span as a f*cked up gibbon who's just necked 10 cups of coffee....

I'll go for the latter excuse...

Brass Monkey wrote:That and the fact that, collectively, we have as much of an attention-span as a f*cked up gibbon who's just necked 10 cups of coffee....

Shall we rename ourselves the Flaming Farked Up Gibbons?

Apart from Shoey, are any of us attempting a double century for England?

I've made a start. I lazily slashed to cover for 42. This followed a DGAF shot in my previous innings, when 'I'd got my share' at 178.

" I focused more on my batting in this match after my 0 - 111 bowling figures in the previous " ...