Re: If you were a US citizen . . .

by Lara Lara Laughs Thu 29 Nov 2007, 15:52

Eh? I'm not a Tory!

by Brass Monkey Thu 29 Nov 2007, 15:56

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:Eh? I'm not a Tory!

**cough** I was on about the misogynist, brains **cough**

by Allan D Thu 29 Nov 2007, 16:06

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:Wow, Allan D, you're coming across as massively bigoted.

You're the one playing the race card not me. Dinkins' defeat in 1993 in a city that has more registered Democrats than any other and the biggest multi-ethnic population of any US city (apart possibly from LA) had nothing to do with his race and everything to do with his competence or lack of it. The Ali G "Is it 'cos I is black?" argument simply doesn't wash. It is significant that no Democrat has won an election for New York Mayor since.

To say that the credits in Giuliani's record are simply down to a continuation of Dinkins' policies and that the debits are entirely his own devising is a facile interpretation. You could equally make the same point about the UK Labour Government in relation to its Thatcher-Major predecessor (and be equally wrong).

The point you all seem to be missing in your eagerness forr name-calling is that Giuliani doesn't just owe his reputation, rightly or wrongly, to 9/11 but to the transformation of NYC in the 8 years before that. You can argue over whether or not that was all his doing but that a transformation occurred seems to me to be indisputable.

by Allan D Thu 29 Nov 2007, 16:08

bliksem wrote: I notice you also didn't bother to mention her role in the return of Elian Gonzalez to his father. Why is that?

I thought mentioning one disaster would be enough.

by Lara Lara Laughs Thu 29 Nov 2007, 16:09

Batfink Begins wrote:
Lara Lara Laughs wrote:Eh? I'm not a Tory!

**cough** I was on about the misogynist, brains **cough**

Should have quoted his post then, beatch.

by Brass Monkey Thu 29 Nov 2007, 16:11

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:
Should have quoted his post then, beatch.

by Lara Lara Laughs Thu 29 Nov 2007, 16:12

Allan D wrote:
Lara Lara Laughs wrote:Wow, Allan D, you're coming across as massively bigoted.

You're the one playing the race card not me. Dinkins' defeat in 1993 in a city that has more registered Democrats than any other and the biggest multi-ethnic population of any US city (apart possibly from LA) had nothing to do with his race and everything to do with his competence or lack of it. The Ali G "Is it 'cos I is black?" argument simply doesn't wash. It is significant that no Democrat has won an election for New York Mayor since.

To say that the credits in Giuliani's record are simply down to a continuation of Dinkins' policies and that the debits are entirely his own devising is a facile interpretation. You could equally make the same point about the UK Labour Government in relation to its Thatcher-Major predecessor (and be equally wrong).

The point you all seem to be missing in your eagerness forr name-calling is that Giuliani doesn't just owe his reputation, rightly or wrongly, to 9/11 but to the transformation of NYC in the 8 years before that. You can argue over whether or not that was all his doing but that a transformation occurred seems to me to be indisputable.

Huh? What?

How am I playing a race card? Why are you talking about Giuliani? I was referring to your "Hillary shouldn't be elected because she's a woman and look what a few other women in history have done" rant.

And where's the name calling? I said you're coming across as bigoted to me. Well, you are.

by Allan D Thu 29 Nov 2007, 16:44

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:
How am I playing a race card? Why are you talking about Giuliani? I was referring to your "Hillary shouldn't be elected because she's a woman and look what a few other women in history have done" rant.

Where did I say that? Don't put something in quotes that I didn't say. I was replying to bliksem's rather sexist point that a woman "would reorganise male priorities" and his other point that Giuliani is only in the running because of 9/11. If 9/11 hadn't happened (which we would have all preferred) Giuliani would still have been a strong, and possibly the strongest, candidate for the nomination.

I merely pointed out that women leaders in history, including in democracies, have proved stronger leaders than men. I have nothing against women leaders and approve of Golda Meir (Labour), Mrs Thatcher (Conservative) and Condoleeza Rice (Republican and black). I'm not so admiring of Indira Gandhi or Benazir Bhutto but that's because of their record not their gender. It's usually liberals who become bigoted and sexist when there is a female leader who doesn't conform to their views or stereotypes (cf. Mrs T). If you had read my post properly you would have seen I was trying to contradict bliksem's sexist point not make one.

As far as Hillary is concerned, although I wouldn't support her, I am quite relaxed about her becoming President. She is by far the best of the bunch out of the Democratic crop offering themselves and whatever the changes might be in domestic policy, the foreign and defence policy of the US as developed under her husband and the current incumbent would, in my view, remain unchanged.

by Lara Lara Laughs Thu 29 Nov 2007, 17:06

If that is what you were saying, then that is certainly not how it came across in text. At least two other people on this thread interpreted your post the same way as me.

by Merlin Thu 29 Nov 2007, 17:13

Name names I say.

by Lara Lara Laughs Thu 29 Nov 2007, 17:21

Well, it's pretty obvious - danny and bliksem.

by Brass Monkey Thu 29 Nov 2007, 17:22

I construed it like that :- "Women, not good enough to run a country (and knowing his penchant for a sexy bird pic or two) but look at their tits and pussy".

by Basil Thu 29 Nov 2007, 17:23

Faced with the choice of voting for one of that shower, I would be on the first plane out of the US

by Allan D Thu 29 Nov 2007, 17:31

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:If that is what you were saying, then that is certainly not how it came across in text. At least two other people on this thread interpreted your post the same way as me.

Well they're wrong. Don't jump to conclusions. I think it was a good thing that Elizabeth I didn't "reorganise male priorities" when the Spanish Armada was sailing up the Channel in 1588 but reinforced them, as did Golda Meir at the time of the Yom Kippur War in 1973 and Mrs T did when General Galitieri invaded the Falklands.

I certainly don't think Mrs Clinton should be opposed on the grounds she is a woman but I certainly don't think she should be supported for that reason either. As in the case of any other politician, support should be conditional on whether or not you agree with her and whether or not you think she'd do a good job.

If Clinton were elected there would be at least the striking symmetry of having Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton in the White House for almost a quarter of a century. A bit like the Wars of the Roses in England in the Middle Ages when Henry VI was followed by Edward IV who was followed (briefly) by Henry VI who was deposed by Edward IV again.

Does Mrs Clinton more resemble Margaret of Anjou (Henry VI's wife who took over the leadership of the Lancastrians during her husband's bouts of mental illness) or Elizabeth Woodville (Edward IV's wife)? Probably the latter as the Woodville family were rich parvenus hungry for power and influence rather like the Rodhams and Edward IV was a notorious rake who couldn't keep his hands off any good-looking woman who came into his eyeline and whose marriage was mainly one of political convenience.

by Allan D Thu 29 Nov 2007, 17:33

Batfink Begins wrote:I construed it like that :- "Women, not good enough to run a country (and knowing his penchant for a sexy bird pic or two) but look at their tits and pussy".

Don't put your thoughts in my mind. pig

by Merlin Thu 29 Nov 2007, 17:36

Get Billary in is my shout.

Stains on skirts much more newsworthy than stains on trews.
Go the Clint chick ....

by Brass Monkey Thu 29 Nov 2007, 17:38

Allan D wrote:
Don't put your thoughts in my mind.

I agree. I like to look at hoo-hoos and ta-tas. I'm not sure about the rest of it. Jus how I construed it and as LLL mentions, I wasn't alone.

by Allan D Thu 29 Nov 2007, 17:41

I thought the current rumours are that Hillary likes to keep it among the girls. Mind you, I'm not surprised, married to Bill, she never knows where he's been. Didn't a stain on a skirt get Billy into trouble, btw?

by Lara Lara Laughs Thu 29 Nov 2007, 17:41

Keep saying "chick", Dumbledore. It makes you look way cool.

by Merlin Thu 29 Nov 2007, 17:55

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:Keep saying "chick", Dumbledore. It makes you look way cool.

I'd give her one ( vote - in case you wondered) if it meant air-con Lincoln Continental cavalacades, riding helicopters and hovering by the nuke red button ... so 'chick' she remains!

by Merlin Thu 29 Nov 2007, 17:56

Allan D wrote:I thought the current rumours are that Hillary likes to keep it among the girls. Mind you, I'm not surprised, married to Bill, she never knows where he's been. Didn't a stain on a skirt get Billy into trouble, btw?

Thought it were on his trews ... or tie ... which he used as a Kleenex.
Wikipedia ought to shed light here ...

by Brass Monkey Thu 29 Nov 2007, 18:10

Merlin wrote:
I'd give her one ( vote - in case you wondered) if it meant air-con Lincoln Continental cavalacades, riding helicopters and hovering by the nuke red button ... so 'chick' she remains!

Thought scares me as much as it does when I think about Dubya in the same scenario.

You tell him daddio. Far out.

by Allan D Thu 29 Nov 2007, 18:24

Merlin wrote:
Allan D wrote:I thought the current rumours are that Hillary likes to keep it among the girls. Mind you, I'm not surprised, married to Bill, she never knows where he's been. Didn't a stain on a skirt get Billy into trouble, btw?
Thought it were on his trews ... or tie ... which he used as a Kleenex.
Wikipedia ought to shed light here ...

Nope, Monica's blue dress which she kept in the closet and never took to the cleaners. Nearly ended up taking Bill to the cleaners instead.

by Allan D Thu 29 Nov 2007, 18:37

Here's a strange thought:

Monica before Bill:

If you were a US citizen . . . - Page 2 Monica-lewinsky-2

Monica after Bill:

If you were a US citizen . . . - Page 2 Monica%20Lewinsky

Could the same thing happen to America (or the world?) as a whole under the next Clinton Presidency? Scarey thought. affraid

by Allan D Thu 29 Nov 2007, 18:42

Here's the proof that Bill was fibbing:

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/clinton/lewinskydress.html

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