England Qualified Players Who MIGHT NOT Be S**t

by Chivalry Augustus Mon 25 Mar 2013, 13:30

Hello guys. Lawrence Llewellyn Gusman here to start the bi-annual OMG England are rubbish, but what can we hypothetically maybe possibly do about it, if only we lived in a world where we were selectors, and not unimportant retards, flicking between midget porn and Flaming Bails on our days ~~skiving~~ off from work. As you may or may not know, England are rubbish and there is no-one really out there who looks about to displace the Ian Bells of this world from the team. But I thought it would be nice just to build a catalogue of potential and previous England players who have moderate to excellent first-class records who might one day represent England (again, in some cases). This will be an ongoing thing that I will add to and update as players typically regress - as is usual with non-South African Englishman.

Please note that players currently in the England Test side will not be included. Now, I have drawn certain boundaries that enable a player to qualify. I am seeking batsmen who average 44.00 or greater. I am seeking bowlers who average 28.00 or fewer. There is a qualifying number of runs (500) and wickets (50), and the player(s) must have played in the County Championship. I will also be tracking all-rounders who average more than 30.00 with the bat and fewer than 35.00 with the ball (same qualifications). Wicket keepers must average greater than 39.00 (a line drawn because every Tom, Dick and Harry averages over 35.00). So, if you can find any players who meet these criteria, please submit them at once. I am, however, banning players who have reached 30. This will be called the 'older than Nick Compton' clause.

Here are players I currently have:

Batsmen -

James Hildreth, 28 - 9866 runs @ 44.24 (uncapped, despite a solid career)
Gary Ballance, 23 - 3380 runs @ 51.21 (Zimbabwean by birth but has represented England Lions)
James Taylor, 23 - 5409 runs @ 47.03 (capped by England in Tests and ODIs without distinction)
Rory Burns, 22 - 776 runs @ 45.64 (a rookie, who needs to follow up on a decent season last year)
Shiv Thakor, 19 - 617 runs @ 51.41 (another bright Leicestershire prospect, holding their batting together)]/i]

Bowlers -

Toby Roland-Jones, 25 - 132 wkts @ 20.78 [i](seems to be nowhere near selection despite spectacular figures)
Stuart Meaker, 24 - 145 wkts @ 27.75 (already an England fringe player, albeit without distinction)
Keith Barker, 26 - 84 wkts @ 27.13 (a modest, medium pacer who has added inswing to his armoury)
Chris Wood, 22 - 63 wkts @ 26.07 (left-armer, medium pace, a long way from selection)

All-rounders (keepers included) -

Chris Woakes, 24 - 2703 runs @ 37.54, 257 wkts @ 25.77 (in the Test squad, but presently uncapped)
Adil Rashid, 25 - 3709 runs @ 32.82, 296 wkts @ 34.81 (a former prodigy who has represented England)
Will Gidman, 28 - 1461 runs @ 36.52, 99 wkts @ 21.38 (a late bloomer, probably too late)

Please post any other players who meet my criteria. Please note that there is no agenda here. All players who meet the criteria are added. This is not a thread to encourage any one player's cause, or otherwise.

by beamer Mon 25 Mar 2013, 14:04

Those are tough criteria - anyone averaging around the 40 mark is likely to come under consideration, or even a bit lower, especially if they play their home games on a more difficult pitch e.g. Trent Bridge or Headingley rather than Taunton. And bowlers are picked on raw potential rather than being 70mph swinging-track bullies.

by Chivalry Augustus Mon 25 Mar 2013, 14:26

beamer wrote:Those are tough criteria - anyone averaging around the 40 mark is likely to come under consideration, or even a bit lower, especially if they play their home games on a more difficult pitch e.g. Trent Bridge or Headingley rather than Taunton. And bowlers are picked on raw potential rather than being 70mph swinging-track bullies.

I agree. But do the England selectors? Alex Hales plays half his matches at Trent Bridge and averages 38.46. He also fulfills a lot of criteria that current England players do not - attacking, hits a big ball, etc. Now I'm not sure he is good enough but I think he's unlucky to have only played Twenty20 for England.

Perhaps it would be fairer in the course of this 'catalogue' to discuss a MINIMUM acceptable level for an England player, and in so doing, track all factors in their progression including form and their improvement/regression in terms of statistics? FYI, Joe Root would not meet the selection criteria I have proposed. Nor would Monty Panesar. Although spinners are an exceptional case and I was about to propose a sub-category for them, especially due to unhelpful wickets (and points deductions for helpful wickets!).

That would therefore suggest that England players do, broadly, need to fit into or close to these criteria to make selection - unless they're already in the system, or they're very young. Perhaps it would be wise to add a sub-category for players under the age of 24 who are within a reasonable range of error, yet might potentially be Test cricketers? Root for instance averaged 38 when he made the team (his average has dropped below that after this tour).

by beamer Mon 25 Mar 2013, 14:42

Trescothick averaged barely 30 when called up... Vaughan only mid 30s I think, though home ground was a factor there. On the other hand, Graeme Hick averaged in the 50s over his FC career, as did Ramprakash. And these days there perhaps needs to be a Div 1/Div 2 adjustment factor - 5 runs? 10 runs?

The toughest challenge is identifying those "X factor" players (and I don't mean bad singers!) I don't think any country has an easy task identifying Test-playing talent from their domestic FC competition these days. I know the Lions system tends to produce "chosen ones" who get more than their fair share of chances, but then occasionally an outsider will emerge through weight of county runs and wickets.

by Brass Monkey Mon 25 Mar 2013, 16:56

I'm afraid you're plumbing depths that will have to be based upon potential, rather than results. Because no-one is consistently achieving such results. Alex Hales averaged 34 last season in FC cricket. This means little to me, he's decent enough IMO and is worth some sort of shot. Got to have more cojones than the Knicker Twins. Otherwise you're looking toward the likes of Jimmy Adams or James Hildrethftb. If you're looking for someone with impeccable talent, you go for Rob Newton.

As for the bowlers - it's pretty much a jiffy mix. They're all dobbers or they're incredibly expensive.

I do think that Onions deserves a go, regardless of some wank-arsed warm-up.

by Chivalry Augustus Mon 25 Mar 2013, 17:22

Brass Monkey wrote:I'm afraid you're plumbing depths that will have to be based upon potential, rather than results. Because no-one is consistently achieving such results. Alex Hales averaged 34 last season in FC cricket. This means little to me, he's decent enough IMO and is worth some sort of shot. Got to have more cojones than the Knicker Twins. Otherwise you're looking toward the likes of Jimmy Adams or James Hildrethftb. If you're looking for someone with impeccable talent, you go for Rob Newton.

As for the bowlers - it's pretty much a jiffy mix. They're all dobbers or they're incredibly expensive.

I do think that Onions deserves a go, regardless of some wank-arsed warm-up.

I find it amazing that nearly nobody in England who is English or Englishish can average over 50. Ballance has played a bit of Zimbabwean first-class cricket so I doubt even he actually averages 50. James Taylor may be the closest thing to an Englishman averaging 50. And although James Taylor is a good prospect, he owes a lot of his run-scoring to perseverance over quality. I've been thinking about guys on the fringes and here's the ones I think merit selection on a wildcard:

Alex Hales, 24 - 3116 runs @ 38.46 (has represented England in Twenty20, with distinction)
Jos Buttler, 22 - 1523 runs @ 30.46 (capped in limited-overs formats with mixed results)
Reece Topley, 19 - 45 wkts @ 25.57 (capped at under-19 level, fast-medium, lots of talent)
Ben Stokes, 21 - 2442 runs @ 37.56, 65 wkts @ 28.64 (capped in ODIs, massive underachiever so far)
Azeem Rafiq, 22 - 51 wkts @ 34.49 (uncapped, former England Under-19 captain)
Shiv Thakor, 19 - 617 runs @ 51.41 (as above, a bright Leicestershire prospect, holding their batting together)

The good thing about all the batsmen there is that they're aggressive. England has a team of blockers. Rafiq hasn't played a lot of cricket but I like him. A bowler who can bat, orthodox but looks a decent talent. Buttler is a massive talent and should be in the team ahead of Bairstow.

by Chivalry Augustus Mon 25 Mar 2013, 17:31

Now, if I was honest, my group of players worth keeping an eye on would be:

Jos Buttler
Reece Topley
James Taylor
Alex Hales
Ben Stokes
Azeem Rafiq
Shiv Thakor
Gary Ballance
Stuart Meaker

Especially as some of the guys, like Hildreth, Woakes and Rashid, have little more to add to what(ever) they've already proven.

by Brass Monkey Mon 25 Mar 2013, 18:10

I like Aneesh Kapil. Gavin Griffiths is one to keep an eye on.

But as for your lot - not sure Rafiq or Buttler need a mention - keeping and spinning is all sewn up. They're the only places we're truly excelling at. If I had to pick out one of those batsmen it'd be Hales easily. I can see technical deficiencies in him but he does eell enough facing the new ball - he'll be good shout at five or six. We need Stokes to kick on - he could be crucial to our future as a force.

by beamer Mon 25 Mar 2013, 20:06

In terms of keeping and spinning, Prior, Swann and Panesar are all over 30, we've got to have an eye on the future. You can't neglect your strong areas as time does move on.

I'd like to see Hales develop as a longer form player, he's got a bit of Trescothick about him and we've lacked that at the top of the order in recent years. Next step is to give him a prolonged chance in 50 over cricket though. Buttler as well looks likely to be a limited overs specialist as a pure batsman, but has potential to be the eventual successor to Prior as a keeper-batsman if he develops both suits.

Interesting question is who this season's Trott/Compton will be, the previously unheralded player who makes a strong case through an impressive county season.

by Henry Mon 25 Mar 2013, 21:03

Alternate XI-

Chopra
Hales
Suppiah
Hildreth
Roy
Stokes
Buttler+
Gregory/Jamie Overton
Rafiq
Meaker
Mills/Topley

Why the f*ck not?

by Brass Monkey Mon 25 Mar 2013, 21:47

Hmmmmm, why not you say... why not.
Suppiah is shitheap.
Hildreth is a FTB.
Roy hasn't ever been good.
Stokes is injured.
Buttler doesn't even keep for his county.
Gregory is totally off the radar.
Meaker has been tonk fodder since the end of the county season.
Mills is injured.

by Lara Lara Laughs Mon 25 Mar 2013, 22:16

Blob Key.

by Henry Mon 25 Mar 2013, 22:29

Brass Monkey wrote:Hmmmmm, why not you say... why not.
Suppiah is shitheap. One of the best techniques in the CC
Hildreth is a FTB. No. Scored a lot of runs away from Taunton last year.
Roy hasn't ever been good. Looks the goods. Has a go. Stacks of potential.
Stokes is injured. Is he? I thought he was just in the naughty corner after the Lions tour.
Buttler doesn't even keep for his county. He will this season.
Gregory is totally off the radar. Should be ON the radar. Reverse swings it at 88mph. Bats ok. Radar faulty.
Meaker has been tonk fodder since the end of the county season. Has he PLAYED since the end of the County season?
Mills is injured. He'll get over it. If Tremlett can stagger onto the field for a handful of tests, this guy can.

by Brass Monkey Mon 25 Mar 2013, 22:35

Henry wrote:
Brass Monkey wrote:Hmmmmm, why not you say... why not.
Suppiah is shitheap. One of the best techniques in the CC. Bats on one of the flattest tracks in the world and only averages early to mid 30s.
Hildreth is a FTB. No. Scored a lot of runs away from Taunton last year (on similarly flat tracks).
Roy hasn't ever been good. Looks the goods. Has a go. Stacks of potential. He doesn't look the goods - hence his 30 or less average in every format.
Stokes is injured. Is he? I thought he was just in the naughty corner after the Lions tour. Some hammie thing. Or dentistry, I can't remember.
Buttler doesn't even keep for his county. He will this season. No he won't.
Gregory is totally off the radar. Should be ON the radar. Reverse swings it at 88mph. Bats ok. Radar faulty. Radar may be faulty - but doesn't even bowl for his county. Hardly even plays for his county.
Meaker has been tonk fodder since the end of the county season. Has he PLAYED since the end of the County season? Yes. In India. In Australia.
Mills is injured. He'll get over it. If Tremlett can stagger onto the field for a handful of tests, this guy can.

by LeFromage Mon 25 Mar 2013, 22:58

Henry wrote:Alternate XI-

Chopra
Hales
Suppiah
Hildreth
Roy
Stokes
Buttler+
Gregory/Jamie Overton
Rafiq
Meaker
Mills/Topley

Why the f*ck not?

I don't even think Suppiah is English (even by England's broad interpretation). Wasn't there a problem with him playing for Somerset in the recentish past because immigration wouldn't let him back into the country? Something like that.

In any case, he's bobbins.

by Brass Monkey Mon 25 Mar 2013, 23:15

Dello wrote:
In any case, he's bobbins.

I'd rename him 'Arul Somerset' or 'Arul Bell' if I could be bothered.

by LeFromage Mon 25 Mar 2013, 23:58

Arul 'Sex (if he played for Middle, Susse or Es).

by Yorkie Jill Tue 26 Mar 2013, 01:01

He's totes Malaysian

Henry - 3 Somerset players and one set of Somerset twins?

I know this because I read all the county squads yesterday, but still.

by horace Tue 26 Mar 2013, 01:04

of course there is dobbie Patto...ashes could have the two brothers on opposite teams

by Yorkie Jill Tue 26 Mar 2013, 01:19

by Yorkie Jill Tue 26 Mar 2013, 01:20

it's not jim'llpaintit.

jill'llpaintit.

by PeterCS Tue 26 Mar 2013, 01:31

Answering the original question:

Joe Root.

(I concede the 'MIGHT not'. But there is definite potential there, I think.)

by Chivalry Augustus Fri 16 Aug 2013, 17:02

Hello guys.

As you all know, England is great again!

Rejoice! Do not despair!

Ian Bell is the hero,
the world is no longer turning on its axis,
and the bi-annual gloom has lifted for another day!

We won the war.
Then we won the battle.
Then we smote everybody who was either dead or alive.

Some say those who died died twice, we are now that good.

But, do you know what?

A promise is still a promise.

And I said I'd update this list, maybe.

So, guess what?
Go on, have a guess ... !
I updated it!

Isn't this more thrilling than that time you got punched in the face/stomach/vagina?

Of course it isn't!
But even with that knowledge,
that realisation of futility,
still, still,
I persevered.

Even when deepest, darkest night
enfolded me,
And stared me deep in the eyes,
Giving me that 'come hither' look,
I did not relent.

I persevered, and I prevailed
in this, my life's task,
my calling,
My life's work.

God called,
And it was done,
As readily as if God had called
TWICE!

Those sleepless nights,
In which sleep would not avail me of its comfort,
Those sleepless nights
Were not in vain,
For when the day and the night was worse,
I would look at myself in the mirror,
Seeing but a shadow,
Behind a full month's growth,
And I would realise.

I would realise that one truth,
That comes often at a time
When it is least expected.

I realised
"This is my country,
And because this is my country,
So shall it be done,
With neither complaint,
Nor reluctance,
For in this endeavour,
I am one,
And I am all,
And I am bound,
Not merely by duty,
But by a patriotism
That is not delusion,
For it is given freely,
Openly,
Honestly,
Without regret."

And thus, was I done.
At my ending,
All shall speak only of this.

Batsmen -

James Hildreth, 28 - 9866 runs @ 44.24
now 10531 runs @ 42.98 (08/13)

Gary Ballance, 23 - 3380 runs @ 51.21
now 4339 runs @ 53.56 (08/13)

James Taylor, 23 - 5409 runs @ 47.03
now 6406 runs @ 48.53 (08/13)

Rory Burns, 22 - 776 runs @ 45.64
now 1440 runs @ 43.63 (08/13)

Shiv Thakor, 19 - 617 runs @ 51.41
now 1211 runs @ 46.57 (08/13)

Jos Buttler, 22 - 1523 runs @ 30.46
now 2018 runs @ 32.03 (08/13)

Alex Hales, 24 - 3116 runs @ 38.46
now 3353 runs @ 34.92 (08/13)

Bowlers -

Toby Roland-Jones, 25 - 132 wkts @ 20.78
now 155 wkts @ 21.97 (08/13)

Stuart Meaker, 24 - 145 wkts @ 27.75
now 165 wkts @ 28.42 (08/13)

Keith Barker, 26 - 84 wkts @ 27.13
now 109 wkts @ 25.18 (08/13)

Chris Wood, 22 - 63 wkts @ 26.07
now 76 wkts @ 28.07 (08/13)

Reece Topley, 19 - 45 wkts @ 25.57
now 70 wkts @ 28.37 (08/13)

Azeem Rafiq, 22 - 51 wkts @ 34.49
now 54 wkts @ 35.18 (08/13)

Simon Kerrigan - 164 wkts @ 26.52
now (not applicable)

All-rounders (keepers included) -

Chris Woakes, 24 - 2703 runs @ 37.54, 257 wkts @ 25.77
now 3079 runs @ 37.67, 284 wkts @ 25.48 (08/13)

Adil Rashid, 25 - 3709 runs @ 32.82, 296 wkts @ 34.81
now 4350 runs @ 35.65, 316 wkts @ 35.47 (08/13)

Will Gidman, 28 - 1461 runs @ 36.52, 99 wkts @ 21.38
now 1682 runs @ 35.78, 130 wkts @ 22.62 (08/13)

Ben Stokes, 21 - 2442 runs @ 37.56, 65 wkts @ 28.64
now 2978 runs @ 35.45, 99 wkts @ 27.42 (08/13)

by beamer Fri 16 Aug 2013, 18:33

Hales has knocked nearly 4 runs off his FC average... shows what a shocker he's had this season. Not that we ever thought it was that likely he would develop into a Test prospect, and he's shown a bit of a recovery in white ball form recently.

Which of those "all-rounders including keepers" are keepers? I suppose Rashid might as well give it a go, given the direction his bowling average is heading...

by PeterCS Fri 16 Aug 2013, 19:13

You could put Gidman together with Rashid.

And get Gashman.

Or Ridid.

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