England v Australia, 4th Test, Chester-Le-Street, 9-13 August, 2013

England to rest (rotate) Anderson and Broad? It would cheapen things somewhat, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

Maybe-

Cook(c)
Root
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Bairstow
Prior+
Bresnan
Swann
Tremlett
Onions

Onions is probably a shout as it's his home track and he's in some recent form. I doubt they'd rest Anderson, though. More like drop one of Broad or Bresnan - if not both - as they're contributing f*ck all with the ball.

Durham's not going to be a spinner's track, so England need to find more potency from their seamers or they'll never get 20 wickets. Or even 10.

It'd be nice if they changed up the batting now the urn has been retained. Not going to happen, though.

Few little batting facts, apropos of nothing:-

Alastair Cook averages 24 against Australia at home (8 Tests).

If Australia's slips catching was less rubbish, Joe Root would have made five consecutive single figure scores.

Jonny Bairstow averages 31.37 after 11 Tests (0 hundreds). Ravi Bopara averages 31.94 (3 hundreds) from 13 Tests, Nick Compton @ 31.93 (2 hundreds) from 9 Tests and Eoin Morgan 30.43 (2 hundreds) after 16 Tests.

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Ashes chances gone; just playing for pride now and a 2-2 result at the very best.

Bird in for Lyon at Durham; probably not worth changing the batting as they finally seem to have worked out how to make the best use of the players that are there and no-one else in the tour squad is likely to do better (unless they bring Faulkner or Agar in as a batsman, for Khawaja)

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... copied from 3rd Test thread, as better here.

Henry, are you officially the English skully?

Another statistical anomaly, I think I've got this right but don't shoot me if my mental arithmetic is out:

England runs scored this series: 1705 for 50 wkts lost
Australia runs scored this series: 1638 for 54 wks lost

... it's a bit closer than I would have thought.

Dello wrote:It'd be nice if they changed up the batting now the urn has been retained. Not going to happen, though.

Few little batting facts, apropos of nothing:-

Alastair Cook averages 24 against Australia at home (8 Tests).

If Australia's slips catching was less rubbish, Joe Root would have made five consecutive single figure scores.

Jonny Bairstow averages 31.37 after 11 Tests (0 hundreds). Ravi Bopara averages 31.94 (3 hundreds) from 13 Tests, Nick Compton @ 31.93 (2 hundreds) from 9 Tests and Eoin Morgan 30.43 (2 hundreds) after 16 Tests.

The concern is that there doesn't seem to be that much in reserve, given that the latter three you mention are still situated towards the front of the batting taxi rank. In fact depth seems an issue in all areas, to the extent that England could really implode if a few key players got injured or lost form completely. We could be in for a lean spell when some of the older players get to the end of their careers.

beamer wrote:

Dello wrote:It'd be nice if they changed up the batting now the urn has been retained. Not going to happen, though.

Few little batting facts, apropos of nothing:-

Alastair Cook averages 24 against Australia at home (8 Tests).

If Australia's slips catching was less rubbish, Joe Root would have made five consecutive single figure scores.

Jonny Bairstow averages 31.37 after 11 Tests (0 hundreds). Ravi Bopara averages 31.94 (3 hundreds) from 13 Tests, Nick Compton @ 31.93 (2 hundreds) from 9 Tests and Eoin Morgan 30.43 (2 hundreds) after 16 Tests.

The concern is that there doesn't seem to be that much in reserve, given that the latter three you mention are still situated towards the front of the batting taxi rank. In fact depth seems an issue in all areas, to the extent that England could really implode if a few key players got injured or lost form completely. We could be in for a lean spell when some of the older players get to the end of their careers.

We're definitely in need of a couple of youngsters to step up. Root looks the likeliest, once he settles into the opening role. But there's certainly no new Pietersen on the horizon. Or even an Ian Bell. Or even a Paul Collingwood, who we've never replaced at six since he retired. That's probably the most depressing thing, given what a limited batsman he was.

The bowling stocks are even worse. Finn's going backwards. Meaker's been injured for much of the season and seems to be following the Finn path of losing some pace and regressing. Chris f*cking Woakes toured NZ with the Test squad! 78mph dobber who wouldn't look out of place in women's cricket.

Jesus. Bad times.

I was reading one of the Sunday journalists suggesting Tymal Mills should be taken on the Ashes tour as a raw, pacy wildcard that England lack. I think he's pretty exciting, but to suggest he's anywhere near ready for international cricket at this stage is a bit of a fantasy.

But someone's going to have to step up, or it'll be Woakes by default. And we'll never take 20 wickets ever again.

I think that's true of all teams. I cannot think of any young batsman world wide who looks like he can dominate the world stage going forward.

Well, this would be a 'best of the rest' team based on county form this season:

Sam Robson
Varun Chopra
Luke Wells
James Taylor
Gary Ballance
Ben Stokes
John Simpson ( - Bairstow will be Prior's replacement presumably, even though he can't keep)
Chris Jordan
Keith Barker (meh - Reece Topley instead?)
Jamie Overton
Simon Kerrigan

With certain players omitted due to age, proven failure, or simply because I don't like them. In my defence, a few players made it in despite my dislike of them.

Well, it would be nice to just have some who look capable of averaging 40+ in Tests (or under 35 in terms of bowlers), never mind potential world-beaters.

I think Taylor could do the Colly role (at least) from a batting point of view, but we do need some free-scoring batsmen to step up, the current crop, Bairstow included, look like white-ball sloggers not technically up to Test cricket. We can't look for another KP as he's a one-off, but we need a batting enforcer who bats above 7!

In terms of the bowling I'd like to see one or two raw prospects given a chance. On the other hand, we did have a "78mph dobber" who had a habit of getting the world's best opening batsmen out a few years ago...

I cannot believe Tymal Mills is being suggested as a possible for the Ashes tour. Have these people seen him bowl? He can't even get into the Essex team. If there's any young Essex bowler that going to be a surprise pick it should be Topley but even he's miles away from being ready for international cricket if you ask me.

Chivalry Augustus wrote:Well, this would be a 'best of the rest' team based on county form this season:

Sam Robson
Varun Chopra
Luke Wells
James Taylor
Gary Ballance
Ben Stokes
John Simpson ( - Bairstow will be Prior's replacement presumably, even though he can't keep)
Chris Jordan
Keith Barker (meh - Reece Topley instead?)
Jamie Overton
Simon Kerrigan

With certain players omitted due to age, proven failure, or simply because I don't like them. In my defence, a few players made it in despite my dislike of them.

Based upon them catching my talent-spotting eye (which also doubles as a career crusher):

Rory Burns/Alex Lees
Sam Robson
James Vince
Gary Ballance
James Taylor (even though I don't "get" him)
Ben Stokes
Craig Kiewsetter/Ben Foakes +
Stuart Meaker
Jamie Overton
Tymal Mills
Simon Kerrigan (because I can't think of another young spinner who isn't bobbins)

This will be England's side in six years. For certain.

taipan wrote:I think that's true of all teams. I cannot think of any young batsman world wide who looks like he can dominate the world stage going forward.

India have a couple of good ones.

MoH wrote:I cannot believe Tymal Mills is being suggested as a possible for the Ashes tour. Have these people seen him bowl? He can't even get into the Essex team. If there's any young Essex bowler that going to be a surprise pick it should be Topley but even he's miles away from being ready for international cricket if you ask me.

I've seen him. Most recently against England in the warm up game. Topley played too. Only one of them looked a raw talent in the making.

Mills has got the heat and athleticism to be very decent, IMO. Not yet, obviously, but if left merely to county cricket to develop him, he'll quickly go from a 94mph tearaway to an 80mph trundler, so it would make sense for England to take him under their wing early and see if they can't knock some of the edges off his game while he's still got the wheels.

beamer wrote:

In terms of the bowling I'd like to see one or two raw prospects given a chance. On the other hand, we did have a "78mph dobber" who had a habit of getting the world's best opening batsmen out a few years ago...

I miss Jon Lewis.

Dello wrote:

MoH wrote:I cannot believe Tymal Mills is being suggested as a possible for the Ashes tour. Have these people seen him bowl? He can't even get into the Essex team. If there's any young Essex bowler that going to be a surprise pick it should be Topley but even he's miles away from being ready for international cricket if you ask me.

I've seen him. Most recently against England in the warm up game. Topley played too. Only one of them looked a raw talent in the making.

Mills has got the heat and athleticism to be very decent, IMO. Not yet, obviously, but if left merely to county cricket to develop him, he'll quickly go from a 94mph tearaway to an 80mph trundler, so it would make sense for England to take him under their wing early and see if they can't knock some of the edges off his game while he's still got the wheels.

OK, fair enough. You're obviously not a frustrated Essex supporter tired of seeing him ping short stuff down the leg side. But hey, Finn does that for England so why not Mills?

JGK wrote:

taipan wrote:I think that's true of all teams. I cannot think of any young batsman world wide who looks like he can dominate the world stage going forward.

India have a couple of good ones.

Indian batsmen always look good at home.

MoH wrote:

Dello wrote:

MoH wrote:I cannot believe Tymal Mills is being suggested as a possible for the Ashes tour. Have these people seen him bowl? He can't even get into the Essex team. If there's any young Essex bowler that going to be a surprise pick it should be Topley but even he's miles away from being ready for international cricket if you ask me.

I've seen him. Most recently against England in the warm up game. Topley played too. Only one of them looked a raw talent in the making.

Mills has got the heat and athleticism to be very decent, IMO. Not yet, obviously, but if left merely to county cricket to develop him, he'll quickly go from a 94mph tearaway to an 80mph trundler, so it would make sense for England to take him under their wing early and see if they can't knock some of the edges off his game while he's still got the wheels.

OK, fair enough. You're obviously not a frustrated Essex supporter tired of seeing him ping short stuff down the leg side. But hey, Finn does that for England so why not Mills?

He pings it down the leg side bowling left arm over - so he brings variation to the pinging down the leg side mode of attack.

Dello wrote:

beamer wrote:

In terms of the bowling I'd like to see one or two raw prospects given a chance. On the other hand, we did have a "78mph dobber" who had a habit of getting the world's best opening batsmen out a few years ago...

I miss Jon Lewis.

FFS!

Onions makes the squad for his home Test, replacing Monty in the only change to the 13-man squad from Old Trafford.

beamer wrote:Onions makes the squad for his home Test, replacing Monty in the only change to the 13-man squad from Old Trafford.

Didn't we have a 14-man squad for Old Trafford? I'd personally have kept that 14th man in the squad as a reminder to one particular batsman that he's not yet scored a Test match hundred and scarcely looks Test class, but that's just me.

Yeah, I realised that afterwards... just not used to them picking an extra batsman in the squad, which is why it briefly slipped my mind! Guess LJT will have to wait until the winter at least for his chance now, unless there's an injury.

Finn has one bad test as a bowler and he's dropped. Half of our top six have been awful all series and they don't even contemplate a change. It's all so cosy.....

If they're not going to dish out a few wake-up calls now that the Ashes are secure (for five more months, anyway) then when are they?

Finn's been in indifferent form for a while and can have no complaints at being dropped.

Henry wrote:Finn has one bad test as a bowler and he's dropped. Half of our top six have been awful all series and they don't even contemplate a change. It's all so cosy.....

If they're not going to dish out a few wake-up calls now that the Ashes are secure (for five more months, anyway) then when are they?

Well, who are they going to drop, other than the obvious candidate Bairstow?

Cook - captain and obviously untouchable in the side, just needs to find his best form.
Root - despite several low scores opening, averages well over 40 in fledgling Test career.
Trott - having a bad run but who else would you put at number 3?
Bell - was on shaky ground at the start, but player of the series so far, only man to have contributed significantly in every match.
KP - just scored a century which went a long way towards saving this match, and there's nobody else like him out there.

It is a general theme though that bowlers are easier to drop than batsmen. Why is that? Perhaps because when a batsman is having a bad run of form he gets out early and you often feel he just needs "time in the middle" and it will fall back into place. Whereas there's no hiding place for a bowler, he can toil away dishing out pies for half the match unless the captain loses confidence in him so much he refuses to even use him. A struggling bowler is so visible and also is generally part of a four-man unit whereas there are seven in the main batting unit, so it's harder for others to cover for him.