Re: Rugby World Cup 18 Sep - 31 Oct 2015

by PeterCS Tue 06 Oct 2015, 15:24

So: is it time to combine the historically separated codes?

(Mainly tongue-in-cheek question, in light of previous observations.)

by taipan Tue 06 Oct 2015, 16:01

Pete the skew throw into the scrum has been a problem for many years. Then a referee will randomly penalise one.

IMHO the line outs are not badly policed.

by taipan Tue 06 Oct 2015, 17:05

Anyway it is time the entire rugby rule book is rewritten and simplified. There are a number of idiotic rules that should be changed.

by Henry Tue 06 Oct 2015, 22:12

JGK wrote:
Henry wrote:
Ethics? The Gall! wrote:
Henry wrote:I guess when you think about it, on paper before the tournament, if you removed all patriotism and delusion, England were the team most likely to be knocked out in this 'group of death'. We were never very good. Under four years of Stuart Lancaster, we never even won the Six Nations FFS.

Don't know who I'm supporting now. Japan obviously. But beyond them probably Wales? (although their fans acted like right qunts when England got knocked out)

Ireland it is.
just as a matter of interest
is it even remotely possible that one day you will back australia or an australian to win a game? in any sport. is there any team or athlete you despise more than any and all australians?

i know its never going to actually happen but are there any circumstances that make it possible?

Hi.

No.

Phurt. You would go for Aust over the Seppos.

True. Especially in sports that the Seppos are good at and know it, like basketball, baseball, and athletics.

And at a stretch I'd also back Aus over an Assad-backed Syrian team.

by Henry Tue 06 Oct 2015, 22:14

Ethics? The Gall! wrote:thanks

didnt think so. so if you hate it so much why the ****** do you live here?

Well that's just bigoted, young man.

Me iz victimassed coz ov ma culcha, innit!

by Ethics? The Gall! Tue 06 Oct 2015, 22:53

not bigoted. you have the right to live here if thats what you want

i just dont understand why you want to when you appear to hate the people and country so much

by Henry Tue 06 Oct 2015, 23:05

Ethics? The Gall! wrote:not bigoted. you have the right to live here if thats what you want

i just dont understand why you want to when you appear to hate the people and country so much

I don't hate the country or its people. There is a clear and obvious difference between liking a country, and liking that country's sporting teams.

by horace Wed 07 Oct 2015, 00:41

Henry wrote:
Ethics? The Gall! wrote:not bigoted. you have the right to live here if thats what you want

i just dont understand why you want to when you appear to hate the people and country so much

I don't hate the country or its people. There is a clear and obvious difference between liking a country, and liking that country's sporting teams.

hmmn..I take he opposite view...I like our teams but roll my eyes at Oz citizens.

Personally I am barracking for the Irish to win the WC

by Ethics? The Gall! Wed 07 Oct 2015, 00:52

Henry wrote: There is a clear and obvious difference between liking a country, and liking that country's sporting teams.

true
pity you dont often display that difference

by horace Wed 07 Oct 2015, 00:59

so ETG are you an unquestioning Oz patriot

by embee Wed 07 Oct 2015, 01:45

I have a few questions ...the first and most important..."Vomits...Why?"

by horace Wed 07 Oct 2015, 01:53

hehehe...we are a different joint...fewer Pomgolian and Yarpie immigrants for starters...I expect half of WA is barracking for the Yarps

by embee Wed 07 Oct 2015, 01:56

they barrack for winners ...and the ones that arrive from SA via NZ they jump on the AB wagon too

by taipan Wed 07 Oct 2015, 18:46

Habana confirms his position as an ATG.

by Lindsay no.2 Wed 07 Oct 2015, 21:04

PeterCS wrote:Well, shit or bust for England. (And possibly Scotland too.)

Can't say it's looking good. All the talk of "going all out", "giving it 110%" - even Lancaster making such noises, at least in public. "Biggest game ever", "do it for your country, your family", etc. etc.

The main problem with that message is that passion, commitment are not generally the problem for England when the chips are down. (Or talent, for that matter.) Rather, a set of cool heads, intelligent leadership, NOT "getting carried away". That's what goes disastrously missing. The David Sole. The Mike Brearley. The brain.

Towering passion, extreme straining of muscle and nerve, tend to lead quite quickly to enervation, nervous exhaustion and the bewildered wilting of effort (like trying to swim with all taut-to-breaking muscles and sinews, you don't get far). And yet, if you let yourself get carried away by the occasion, the pressure of expectation, the patriotic chest-beating, you're open to every single sucker-punch. And worse, beat yourself.

Way back in the 1970s even, Wales did not generally beat England (or the others - often excepting Ireland) by dint of greater talent, or "wanting it more". But often winning from losing positions by dint of ingenuity (Gareth Edwards kicks and trickery in adversity, Barry John or Phil Bennett jinking ...) .... and THINKING on your feet.

The quite likely nightmare scenario for England in their match this evening is that it starts with a bang (or handling in the ruck, argy-bargy, etc.). Dan Cole or some other patriotic, nostril-flaring arse gets sent to the bin, or off, then penalty after penalty, frustration and exasperation, two or eight other sendings-off, while the Aussies really get into their free-flowing stride. The England captain, having tried his best "Henry V" before or after the crashing anthems and bullshit - and thereby completely failed to address the real problem - still scratches his head in exasperation and doesn't for the life of him know what's gone wrong. Total Pete Tong, etc. Weren't we passionate enough?

That was a caricature of what for England usually goes arse-up. Happened so often.

Not too little effort, commitment. Perhaps too much. But far too little cool, clear thinking, intelligent focus, to make the most of the effort, commitment (and skill) that's generally there or thereabouts. Hence, mugs of passion.

NZ were error-riddled last night, from what I saw of the second half. (Credit to the hard-hitting Georgians.) Probably good for them to get the poor performance out of their system early. Cool analysis, reality & hybris check, etc. should stand them in good stead. NZ have often steamrollered and blistered their way through the early stages of WCs with cricket scores ... and then, unhardened, been mugged in one or other of the knock-out games.

Well lots of what you wrote there came to pass on Sat night Pete. We played without much brainpower and our nostril flarers helped to put the final nail in the coffin late on (although the result was probably safe or Aus by that stage anyway). We got destroyed - physically and mentally. Once again the gulf of brainpower in terms of how to approach a game between Northern and Southern Hemisphere rugby was at the fore on Sat, including the SA/Scot game as Scot tried to out-macho SA, not a good idea and guess what it didn't work.

As I wrote after the Wales game, I thought that if we went in with a similar approach to Aus as we did against Wales then we were sure to lose and lo and behold we did.

Farrell is simply not a world class 10. Growls, you and me obviously disagree on this as you see him as superior to Ford. The only areas he is better in is that he can kick goals from further out and can tackle harder. Downsides - can't get a backline going for shit with his passing, can't make a linebreak himself as he has as much pace as a tighthead prop - so opposing defences can bottle England up all too easily. He's also a narky qunt who is always on the edge of nasty play and quite often indulges in very dirty, cheap play. His shoulder charge on Giteau was stupid in the extreme and reflects on the spite within Farrell and it is something he continues to be unable to control (short fuse syndrome which affects Hartley and Brown too). He should be booted out for good, along with his old man and Lancaster. Barritt has to go as well and a fair few upfront need to be looked at.

by Lindsay no.2 Wed 07 Oct 2015, 21:27

Growler wrote:Congratulations to Australia ...... well worth the win, and outplayed us in every department.

I'm well impressed with the progress of the Aus pack - they have come on strongly over the last few months, and certainly took our lot by surprise. That said, taips will remember that before a ball was kicked I had doubts about our scrum and particularly lineout. Five penalties from the scrum is 4 too many, and the amount of ball we turned over was a incredible.

Somehow though, although this loss should feel worse than the reverse last week - it doesn't. Against Wales, we threw away a winning position through indiscipline ...... we could, and really should have won it. Tonight, we were always chasing the game, but not out of it by any means until the hour mark or so.

So long as we kept the ball moving, we always looked dangerous ..... until we took in into contact. We were so slow to the breakdown the ball was often heading towards the Aus back line by the time we got there.

Once again, the substitutions threw us out of shape. Agreed Joe Marler needed to be replaced once the ref began to ping him at the scrum. I can't help thinking it was a mistake having Sam Burgess on the bench rather than cover for full back/wingers. Replacing May with George Ford shoved Farrell to inside centre (he can cover that), Barritt to outside centre (out of position) and JJ to the wing. I always thought this WC was a year too early for Burgess, and IMO either Slade or Nowell would've been a better pick on the bench.

Anyway, there we are. Who is going to play who in the QF's ? All bets are off just now, I think. So many possibilities in the other groups with games outstanding and bonus points up for grabs. I think we'll have a couple more shocks before anyone gets their paws on the trophy.

Firstly, have to agree with you Growler. Aus were terrific. Backs as good and as slick as you usually expect of Australia - and they kind of put paid to our supposed impenetrable interior defensive wall, built around Farrell/Barritt (if one enters a game with a defensive mindset then one runs the risk of getting done in, I'm thinking The Maginot Line and perhaps the Atlantic Wall too). The surprise of sorts was the pack - looks like Ledesma has made them a scrummaging unit to be feared. Marler got mangled - his hip shunt move was so pronounced, I don't seem to recall him historically doing that so overtly, I just wonder if he was turning in to protect a potentially damaged right shoulder or some other ailment? Pocock and Hooper were awesome and we once again surrendered the breakdown area. We did that against Wales and lost - and seemingly learned nothing.

I take issue with your comment re: the Wales game. I don't think you give enough (maybe any) credit to Wales for winning that match. You put it down to our indiscipline - which I think is maybe where the England coaching team came out at too, it would certainly explain the use of the same tactics against Aus at the breakdown and the deployment of the same backs barring Joseph (OK we lost, let's bring on one guy who can run and he'll save our bacon). Wales figured our game out over halftime and worked out ways to put us under pressure whereby we would have to concede penalties or risk getting over-run. Our indiscipline was arrived at through smart Welsh tactics and play. We were outthought and outfought and wilted under the onslaught.

Not sure we always looked particularly dangerous with ball in hand - we never really threatened Aus's line consistently. We only began to get around them when Ford came on at 10 as unlike Farrell he has a pair of eyes and also a pair of hands that is able to deliver the ball with pace into roughly the right area to get people into space.

by JGK Thu 08 Oct 2015, 02:51

taipan wrote:Habana confirms his position as an ATG.

What did he do?

by embee Thu 08 Oct 2015, 03:15

Bashed some minnows

by JGK Thu 08 Oct 2015, 03:19

embee wrote:Bashed some minnows

How very Saffie.

by horace Thu 08 Oct 2015, 05:39

JGK wrote:
embee wrote:Bashed some minnows

How very Saffie.

unless they are playing the Japanese

by Lindsay no.2 Thu 08 Oct 2015, 22:06

On evidence so far it looks like the cup is going to return down south of the equator again. Just which country though?

SA are back in the running - Pollard, De Allende, Kriel and the back 3 are a potent force and their pack might just be able to hold its own.

NZ - you just can't bet against them ever. Not the best or at their best but they're like the baddie in a horror movie. When you think they're dead they come back with more fury than ever.

Aus - play like they did against England and they too are right in the mix. Best pack on show so far - and who would've thought that would be said without so much as a titter before the tourney.

Arg - good but I doubt they've got the backs or depth of squad to win the whole thing.

The home nations look conservative, dull and slow - again. England being the worst offender and duly punished for their retrograde stance.

I don't like the look of France's gameplan (they've bought into the same turgid style of the home nations for too long) but they may be the only team capable of having a couple of great days and surprising the Southern Hemisphere teams. I'd love them to do it - playing like only the French can, but that's more of a wish than a likelihood.

by Henry Thu 08 Oct 2015, 22:21

Aus are looking the most likely, imo.

by lardbucket Thu 08 Oct 2015, 22:21

Is it possible that South Africa's plan all along was to get the choke out of the way early?

by horace Fri 09 Oct 2015, 00:00

lardbucket wrote:Is it possible that South Africa's plan all along was to get the choke out of the way early?

good call

by JGK Fri 09 Oct 2015, 00:34

lardbucket wrote:Is it possible that South Africa's plan all along was to get the choke out of the way early?

Hope so. I put a pineapple on them after the Japan loss.

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