Rugby Championship 2016

Growler wrote:OK men - putting to one side the mind games between EJ and Michael Cheika, how do you think the match will go on Saturday?

Huge blow for us losing big Billy V, but it will at least give us a chance to see how Nathan Hughes compares as a like for like replacement.

Personally, I'm not sure the other 3 matches really told us too much. We weren't under much pressure against one of the worst SA teams of recent years. Fiji, for all their efforts are not a professional team, and many of their best players qualify for other nations (but that's a different issue, for another time). Until we "fell asleep" either side of HT, they never looked threatening.

As for the Argentina game, a fantastic effort to win after losing Daly so early ...... but the Pumas were shot at the end of a hard season, and frankly inept with their tactics against 14 men. Had they played 30-40 yards further upfield I think we'd have been beaten.

So - the best, and hardest game by a distance, I think - at the end. We will want to go unbeaten for the year, and match SCW's 14 match winning run (although the coach & squad won't be thinking of that in itself) .... and stick it once more to the Aus media ( especially Fox sports ) for much sneering commentary before the summer tour. Half the squad played in last years WC, and I'm sure the memory still bloody hurts. They will want to prove a point once more.

Australia, being Australia, will want revenge for the summer whitewash. Considering that Aussie Rules footy and/or league are bigger in many places nationwide, they still produce a damn good RU team. The buggers never know when they're beaten much of the time, and in my experience don't usually just roll over.

Hard to call, but I'll put my head on the block. 35-45 point game, both sides to score 2 or 3 tries, winning margin either way of 3-6 points ...... the difference hopefully being the kicking of "daddy's boy" (which looks an utterly stupid expression now, don't you think?) Owen Farrell.

That prediction may be utter bollocks of course, but we'll know in a few days. Anyone else brave enough to call it ?

Fixed. Fourth football code here behind AFL, league and (soccer) football. Field hockey is much more popular in many areas.

Growler wrote:OK men - putting to one side the mind games between EJ and Michael Cheika, how do you think the match will go on Saturday?

Huge blow for us losing big Billy V, but it will at least give us a chance to see how Nathan Hughes compares as a like for like replacement.

Personally, I'm not sure the other 3 matches really told us too much. We weren't under much pressure against one of the worst SA teams of recent years. Fiji, for all their efforts are not a professional team, and many of their best players qualify for other nations (but that's a different issue, for another time). Until we "fell asleep" either side of HT, they never looked threatening.

As for the Argentina game, a fantastic effort to win after losing Daly so early ...... but the Pumas were shot at the end of a hard season, and frankly inept with their tactics against 14 men. Had they played 30-40 yards further upfield I think we'd have been beaten.


So - the best, and hardest game by a distance, I think - at the end. We will want to go unbeaten for the year, and match SCW's 14 match winning run (although the coach & squad won't be thinking of that in itself) .... and stick it once more to the Aus media ( especially Fox sports ) for much sneering commentary before the summer tour. Half the squad played in last years WC, and I'm sure the memory still bloody hurts. They will want to prove a point once more.
Australia, being Australia, will want revenge for the summer whitewash. Considering that Aussie Rules footy and/or league are bigger in many places, they still produce a damn good RU team. The buggers never know when they're beaten much of the time, and in my experience don't usually just roll over.

Hard to call, but I'll put my head on the block. 35-45 point game, both sides to score 2 or 3 tries, winning margin either way of 3-6 points ...... the difference hopefully being the kicking of "daddy's boy" (which looks an utterly stupid expression now, don't you think?) Owen Farrell.

That prediction may be utter bollocks of course, but we'll know in a few days. Anyone else brave enough to call it ?

I can't recall a better standard of rugby played by so many teams than over the past month or so. The likes of Scotland have taken huge steps forward in their approach and execution.
Broadcast rights means haven't seen much of England play during November. I saw "enough" of them earlier this year.
The results of so many matches in the past month may have been different if the cards had fallen in a slightly different manner; injuries to key players, the "forward" pass that was or wasn't called back, the line open with the ball spilled, or not spilled, the drive the crosses the line and a try is/ is not awarded.
I expect the final result of this weekends Twickenham match will be decided in a like way. It will come down to which teams gets "luckiest" in the conversion of opportunities into points.
Which teams will that be? NFI, but I'm looking forward to the contest.

Welcome back Mick

Mick Sawyer wrote:

Growler wrote:OK men - putting to one side the mind games between EJ and Michael Cheika, how do you think the match will go on Saturday?

Huge blow for us losing big Billy V, but it will at least give us a chance to see how Nathan Hughes compares as a like for like replacement.

Personally, I'm not sure the other 3 matches really told us too much. We weren't under much pressure against one of the worst SA teams of recent years. Fiji, for all their efforts are not a professional team, and many of their best players qualify for other nations (but that's a different issue, for another time). Until we "fell asleep" either side of HT, they never looked threatening.

As for the Argentina game, a fantastic effort to win after losing Daly so early ...... but the Pumas were shot at the end of a hard season, and frankly inept with their tactics against 14 men. Had they played 30-40 yards further upfield I think we'd have been beaten.


So - the best, and hardest game by a distance, I think - at the end. We will want to go unbeaten for the year, and match SCW's 14 match winning run (although the coach & squad won't be thinking of that in itself) .... and stick it once more to the Aus media ( especially Fox sports ) for much sneering commentary before the summer tour. Half the squad played in last years WC, and I'm sure the memory still bloody hurts. They will want to prove a point once more.
Australia, being Australia, will want revenge for the summer whitewash. Considering that Aussie Rules footy and/or league are bigger in many places, they still produce a damn good RU team. The buggers never know when they're beaten much of the time, and in my experience don't usually just roll over.

Hard to call, but I'll put my head on the block. 35-45 point game, both sides to score 2 or 3 tries, winning margin either way of 3-6 points ...... the difference hopefully being the kicking of "daddy's boy" (which looks an utterly stupid expression now, don't you think?) Owen Farrell.

That prediction may be utter bollocks of course, but we'll know in a few days. Anyone else brave enough to call it ?

I can't recall a better standard of rugby played by so many teams than over the past month or so. The likes of Scotland have taken huge steps forward in their approach and execution.
Broadcast rights means haven't seen much of England play during November. I saw "enough" of them earlier this year.
The results of so many matches in the past month may have been different if the cards had fallen in a slightly different manner; injuries to key players, the "forward" pass that was or wasn't called back, the line open with the ball spilled, or not spilled, the drive the crosses the line and a try is/ is not awarded.
I expect the final result of this weekends Twickenham match will be decided in a like way. It will come down to which teams gets "luckiest" in the conversion of opportunities into points.
Which teams will that be? NFI, but I'm looking forward to the contest.

Where you been hiding?

Obviously SA isn't included in that better standard.

SA has a prob with the standard of Pte schools

Weak domestic set-up. A junior program whose numbers are skewed with rubbery figures, a messianic coach with few clues.............Ahh sorry. Wrong thread.

Big Dog wrote:Welcome back Mick

Cheers Big Dog.
Go well.

taipan wrote:

Mick Sawyer wrote:

Growler wrote:OK men - putting to one side the mind games between EJ and Michael Cheika, how do you think the match will go on Saturday?

Huge blow for us losing big Billy V, but it will at least give us a chance to see how Nathan Hughes compares as a like for like replacement.

Personally, I'm not sure the other 3 matches really told us too much. We weren't under much pressure against one of the worst SA teams of recent years. Fiji, for all their efforts are not a professional team, and many of their best players qualify for other nations (but that's a different issue, for another time). Until we "fell asleep" either side of HT, they never looked threatening.

As for the Argentina game, a fantastic effort to win after losing Daly so early ...... but the Pumas were shot at the end of a hard season, and frankly inept with their tactics against 14 men. Had they played 30-40 yards further upfield I think we'd have been beaten.


So - the best, and hardest game by a distance, I think - at the end. We will want to go unbeaten for the year, and match SCW's 14 match winning run (although the coach & squad won't be thinking of that in itself) .... and stick it once more to the Aus media ( especially Fox sports ) for much sneering commentary before the summer tour. Half the squad played in last years WC, and I'm sure the memory still bloody hurts. They will want to prove a point once more.
Australia, being Australia, will want revenge for the summer whitewash. Considering that Aussie Rules footy and/or league are bigger in many places, they still produce a damn good RU team. The buggers never know when they're beaten much of the time, and in my experience don't usually just roll over.

Hard to call, but I'll put my head on the block. 35-45 point game, both sides to score 2 or 3 tries, winning margin either way of 3-6 points ...... the difference hopefully being the kicking of "daddy's boy" (which looks an utterly stupid expression now, don't you think?) Owen Farrell.

That prediction may be utter bollocks of course, but we'll know in a few days. Anyone else brave enough to call it ?

I can't recall a better standard of rugby played by so many teams than over the past month or so. The likes of Scotland have taken huge steps forward in their approach and execution.
Broadcast rights means haven't seen much of England play during November. I saw "enough" of them earlier this year.
The results of so many matches in the past month may have been different if the cards had fallen in a slightly different manner; injuries to key players, the "forward" pass that was or wasn't called back, the line open with the ball spilled, or not spilled, the drive the crosses the line and a try is/ is not awarded.
I expect the final result of this weekends Twickenham match will be decided in a like way. It will come down to which teams gets "luckiest" in the conversion of opportunities into points.
Which teams will that be? NFI, but I'm looking forward to the contest.

Where you been hiding?

Obviously SA isn't included in that better standard.

SA? No, they are the exception it honestly saddens me to say. The player drain, the poor general play skills of the forwards and a complete lack of deception or subtlety in attack. The skills can be learned.

Mick Sawyer wrote:

taipan wrote:

Mick Sawyer wrote:

Growler wrote:OK men - putting to one side the mind games between EJ and Michael Cheika, how do you think the match will go on Saturday?

Huge blow for us losing big Billy V, but it will at least give us a chance to see how Nathan Hughes compares as a like for like replacement.

Personally, I'm not sure the other 3 matches really told us too much. We weren't under much pressure against one of the worst SA teams of recent years. Fiji, for all their efforts are not a professional team, and many of their best players qualify for other nations (but that's a different issue, for another time). Until we "fell asleep" either side of HT, they never looked threatening.

As for the Argentina game, a fantastic effort to win after losing Daly so early ...... but the Pumas were shot at the end of a hard season, and frankly inept with their tactics against 14 men. Had they played 30-40 yards further upfield I think we'd have been beaten.


So - the best, and hardest game by a distance, I think - at the end. We will want to go unbeaten for the year, and match SCW's 14 match winning run (although the coach & squad won't be thinking of that in itself) .... and stick it once more to the Aus media ( especially Fox sports ) for much sneering commentary before the summer tour. Half the squad played in last years WC, and I'm sure the memory still bloody hurts. They will want to prove a point once more.
Australia, being Australia, will want revenge for the summer whitewash. Considering that Aussie Rules footy and/or league are bigger in many places, they still produce a damn good RU team. The buggers never know when they're beaten much of the time, and in my experience don't usually just roll over.

Hard to call, but I'll put my head on the block. 35-45 point game, both sides to score 2 or 3 tries, winning margin either way of 3-6 points ...... the difference hopefully being the kicking of "daddy's boy" (which looks an utterly stupid expression now, don't you think?) Owen Farrell.

That prediction may be utter bollocks of course, but we'll know in a few days. Anyone else brave enough to call it ?

I can't recall a better standard of rugby played by so many teams than over the past month or so. The likes of Scotland have taken huge steps forward in their approach and execution.
Broadcast rights means haven't seen much of England play during November. I saw "enough" of them earlier this year.
The results of so many matches in the past month may have been different if the cards had fallen in a slightly different manner; injuries to key players, the "forward" pass that was or wasn't called back, the line open with the ball spilled, or not spilled, the drive the crosses the line and a try is/ is not awarded.
I expect the final result of this weekends Twickenham match will be decided in a like way. It will come down to which teams gets "luckiest" in the conversion of opportunities into points.
Which teams will that be? NFI, but I'm looking forward to the contest.

Where you been hiding?

Obviously SA isn't included in that better standard.

SA? No, they are the exception it honestly saddens me to say. The player drain, the poor general play skills of the forwards and a complete lack of deception or subtlety in attack. The skills can be learned.

That requires coaches.

taipan wrote:

Mick Sawyer wrote:

taipan wrote:

Mick Sawyer wrote:

Growler wrote:OK men - putting to one side the mind games between EJ and Michael Cheika, how do you think the match will go on Saturday?

Huge blow for us losing big Billy V, but it will at least give us a chance to see how Nathan Hughes compares as a like for like replacement.

Personally, I'm not sure the other 3 matches really told us too much. We weren't under much pressure against one of the worst SA teams of recent years. Fiji, for all their efforts are not a professional team, and many of their best players qualify for other nations (but that's a different issue, for another time). Until we "fell asleep" either side of HT, they never looked threatening.

As for the Argentina game, a fantastic effort to win after losing Daly so early ...... but the Pumas were shot at the end of a hard season, and frankly inept with their tactics against 14 men. Had they played 30-40 yards further upfield I think we'd have been beaten.


So - the best, and hardest game by a distance, I think - at the end. We will want to go unbeaten for the year, and match SCW's 14 match winning run (although the coach & squad won't be thinking of that in itself) .... and stick it once more to the Aus media ( especially Fox sports ) for much sneering commentary before the summer tour. Half the squad played in last years WC, and I'm sure the memory still bloody hurts. They will want to prove a point once more.
Australia, being Australia, will want revenge for the summer whitewash. Considering that Aussie Rules footy and/or league are bigger in many places, they still produce a damn good RU team. The buggers never know when they're beaten much of the time, and in my experience don't usually just roll over.

Hard to call, but I'll put my head on the block. 35-45 point game, both sides to score 2 or 3 tries, winning margin either way of 3-6 points ...... the difference hopefully being the kicking of "daddy's boy" (which looks an utterly stupid expression now, don't you think?) Owen Farrell.

That prediction may be utter bollocks of course, but we'll know in a few days. Anyone else brave enough to call it ?

I can't recall a better standard of rugby played by so many teams than over the past month or so. The likes of Scotland have taken huge steps forward in their approach and execution.
Broadcast rights means haven't seen much of England play during November. I saw "enough" of them earlier this year.
The results of so many matches in the past month may have been different if the cards had fallen in a slightly different manner; injuries to key players, the "forward" pass that was or wasn't called back, the line open with the ball spilled, or not spilled, the drive the crosses the line and a try is/ is not awarded.
I expect the final result of this weekends Twickenham match will be decided in a like way. It will come down to which teams gets "luckiest" in the conversion of opportunities into points.
Which teams will that be? NFI, but I'm looking forward to the contest.

Where you been hiding?

Obviously SA isn't included in that better standard.

SA? No, they are the exception it honestly saddens me to say. The player drain, the poor general play skills of the forwards and a complete lack of deception or subtlety in attack. The skills can be learned.

That requires coaches.

It does; but there needs to be a revolution, the next coach cannot be a South African.

wtf was that?

Phipps is shit ...does he have photos of someone?

As suspected England wins. Score flattered Aus.

Did'nt watch the game. The report i saw mentioned a few 'inexplicable' reffing decisions that went against the Wallabies. This now seems par for the course when playing in the northern hemisphere however i doubt it would have made a lot of difference to the result.

Chechnya will whinge loud and long...time the scary albeit dumb clown was given his marching orders. Out coached, thought, punned and sledged by fast Eddie.

taipan wrote:As suspected England wins. Score flattered Aus.

The result was as I expected: the team that took more of their chances won the contest. That was England. Well done them.
On another day, the same teams playing at the same place the result would have been different. There were just inches in a couple of critical decisions, the rub went England's way, that's how it is.

embee wrote:Phipps is shit ...does he have photos of someone?

Frisby is developing into a far better player than I thought possible. He will get his opportunity.

Mick Sawyer wrote:

taipan wrote:As suspected England wins. Score flattered Aus.

The result was as I expected: the team that took more of their chances won the contest. That was England. Well done them.
On another day, the same teams playing at the same place the result would have been different. There were just inches in a couple of critical decisions, the rub went England's way, that's how it is.

Not the way I saw it. The last Aus try was completely against the run of play. England spent virtually the entire second period camped in the Aus half.

Not the way your saw it Taips? Did you see any of this and remember my point is about taking opportunities or not. I'm not whinging about decisions, I'm not suggesting the wrong team won.
2:50 Foley has a shot at goal from in front, 35 metres out and squeezes outside the right hand upright.
4:56 Pocock fails to ground the ball behind the English goal line. TMO says NO to Australia.
11:49 Kepu crosses the line ball in hand from a pick and drive. TMO says NO to Australia.
13:23 Kiridrani crosses the line. TMO says NO to Australia.
29:00 Australia on attack 45 metres out from the English goal line. Kepu drops the ball and it's hacked through upfield. The ball doesn't stop short of the goal line or travel across the dead all line. Joseph, coming forward from defence wins the race to the ball, try to England.
33:22 Folau crosses the England goal line but has failed to hold the ball.
44:29 Yard keeps a finger on the ball over the Australian goal line. TMO says YES to England.
73:49 Joseph picks off an intercept pass and runs 22 metres for a try.

what i was thinking Mick

but couldnt work out how to write it

there was a missed forward pass in there too

Mick Sawyer wrote:Not the way your saw it Taips? Did you see any of this and remember my point is about taking opportunities or not. I'm not whinging about decisions, I'm not suggesting the wrong team won.
2:50 Foley has a shot at goal from in front, 35 metres out and squeezes outside the right hand upright.
4:56 Pocock fails to ground the ball behind the English goal line. TMO says NO to Australia.
11:49 Kepu crosses the line ball in hand from a pick and drive. TMO says NO to Australia.
13:23 Kiridrani crosses the line. TMO says NO to Australia.
29:00 Australia on attack 45 metres out from the English goal line. Kepu drops the ball and it's hacked through upfield. The ball doesn't stop short of the goal line or travel across the dead all line. Joseph, coming forward from defence wins the race to the ball, try to England.
33:22 Folau crosses the England goal line but has failed to hold the ball.
44:29 Yard keeps a finger on the ball over the Australian goal line. TMO says YES to England.
73:49 Joseph picks off an intercept pass and runs 22 metres for a try.

Mick, as you and I both know any sport is about taking opportunities. The better teams do that. On the day England were the better team.

Both Australia and SA are poor teams at the present. I am not even sure that this is even a good England team, but for sure they are better than both of us.

Good to see you back, Mick.

I've not seen the match as yet, as I was out yesterday, but I have read three minute-by minute commentaries and even more match reports.

I got the feeling that we were a shambles in the opening quarter, and that on another day we could have been 20+ down ...... who knows how the match would have gone. Here's the thing though - over half this team (Brown, Joseph, May, Ford, Farrell, Ben Youngs, Cole, Robshaw and Kruis) played in the WC match last year under Stuart Lancaster. Over a year they have obviously improved both technically and in fitness - but crucially in mental attitude. They still tend to lose a bit of focus for a short while (Fiji and Argentina this autumn) - but have shown the ability to get their shit together and back to the game plan. In previous years they used to just fall apart - not any more.

Eddie Jones masterstroke is the re-jigging of the 9-10-12 axis IMO. Farrell is primarily a stand-off, not an inside centre ........ but has the kind of understanding with his childhood mate George Ford which can't be coached. This means that he takes a huge amount of pressure from GF (who can still get a bit flustered if the forwards are on the back foot.

His main job now, is to have them "on the ball" from the whistle, withstand the type of onslaught they faced yesterday (or Ireland faced last week) - and to maintain that focus for the full 80 minutes. He's not there to teach them how to play rugby, they know how to do that already. He's there to (as Australians would say) put a bit of mongrel into 'em. This time next year, I'd hope to see them with more "dog" than an actual dog, if that makes sense.

Taips, you're not sure that this is a good team. I am sure it is, and it will improve no end. Eddie J is looking towards the 2019 WC. Whilst none of the squad will be too old to go, there are youngsters waiting their chance.

Here's a starting XV with ages and caps today.

1. Mako V age 25, 38 caps
2. Jamie George, 26, 11 caaps
3. Kyle Sinckler, 23, 3 caps
4. Joe Launchbury, 25, 37 caps
5. George Kruis, 26, 19 caps
6. Maro Itoje, 22, 7 caps
7. Nathan Hughes, 25, 2 caps
8. Billy V, 24, 32 caps
9. Ben Youngs, 27, 64 caps
10. George Ford, 23, 29 caps
11. Jonny May, 26, 21 caps
12. Owen Farrell, 25, 46 caps
13. Jonathan Joseph, 28, 28 caps
14. Marland Yarde, 24, 10 caps
15. Elliot Daly, 24, 8 caps

It's a young team (JJ is the old man at 28), but with plenty of experience already in the midfield. Plenty of kicking options both out of hand and from the tee if required. Versatility - if substitutions are needed, or a reshuffle for any reason several players can move position.

That's not necessarily even the best starting XV we could field - I deliberately went for a team to be in their prime (age & fitness wise) in Japan 3 years from now. Who knows what they could achieve with the other squad members added to the mix ...... and two years for others still to make a case for selection. I haven't felt this optimistic about a sports team for many a year.

Growls don't misunderstand me, the reason for my comment is that they haven't met a real test yet.

Fourteen straight wins points to a good team but when you analyse a bit deeper the Boks lost 8 tests this year and the Wallabies 9. England had both Wales and Ireland at home in the 6 nations.

To my mind the jury is still out at this stage. Next year's 6 nations will give another view of where England are. You could be quite right and this could be a great team. I wish you the best of luck.

And in any event, your prospects are far brighter than the Boks.

Growler
It's an exciting time for Home Unions rugby, Ireland and England in particular. We southerners have long wondered why England doesn't dominate the game. Thank goodness for Will Carling's old farts.
Ben Youngs is a cracker - keep him healthy. I should have added his try to the list of opportunities that were taken, it was a gem. Aaron Smith is the best I've seen in that position for 30 years. He is critical to the AB's success. I think I'm right in saying he missed the game in Chicago. Youngs may go close to matching Smith's influence over a game.