Vaughans time is up?

Well?

Not as a knee-jerk reaction to this series loss but more to do with the fact that 5 years is a lot for any captain and things do go stale- the last 5-6 series have hardly been great viewing either as aside from the results we've probably played our least enjoyable cricket in this period.

Oh, and Merlin need not voice his opinion on this thread...

Who is Vaughan?

It's a fantastic opportunity for England to try out new things at The Oval, and the captain ought to be one of those new things. With difficult tours to India and the Windies ahead, it would be a little silly to leave his future up in the air and then face the possibility of having to drop him during or after either of those tours. Now would be a good time to drop Vaughan and start afresh, looking towards competing with rather than beating Australia next year.

Vaughan has been an excellent captain and a beautiful batsman for England. Much as I love the guy to bits though on various levels, I think it's time to accept that he is neither the batsman nor the captain that he was. He's only as good as his tools and his tools are frankly awful at the minute. We need a captain who will give it his all and lead the way with the bat. A tough, grinding competitor. I don't know if there's anyone in the England side who fits that description, but a batsman who scores runs would at least be a headstart on Vaughan currently.

Still, I would expect an unchanged side at T'Oval. England think only as far ahead as their eyes can see, which isn't very far.

BTW, i thought Monty was good today.

Aye - cheerio, and take that arsemunch Moores with you.

It's only the lack of alternatives as a skipper that has meant that there has not been serious calls for Vaughan's head sooner.

There's no place to hide now though.

Any Englishman (or adopted Englishman) who is kidding themselves that we have a prayer of winning the Ashes next summer is living in cloud cuckoo-land, so it's time to look to the future, and write off the next 18 months or so.

Ali Cook - the job's yours. Grow into it.

It can't get much worse if he takes over . . . but if this moribund mob are not broken apart it probably will.

It ain't going to happen, boys.

Besides, you shouldn't be putting Mick under a bit of pressure.

You've got to

AC-CEN-CHOO-ATE the POSITIVES
Vote for the Conservatives
Retain all the preservatives
And don't mess with Mr Trampoline

Two out of the last three home series lost. Didn't win/haven't won a single Test against India or South Africa.

Didn't win a single Test in Sri Lanka either.

England's "developing young side":-

0-5 v Aus
3-0 v WI
0-1 v India
0-1 v Sri Lanka
2-1 v NZ
2-0 v NZ
0-2 v SA

No wins at all against proper opposition.

Doesn't matter who is captain. Flintoff did the job in Australia, Vaughan took charge for the rest. The bottom line is still the same: England can only compete with minnows now.

JKLever wrote:Oh, and Merlin need not voice his opinion on this thread...

Why?
Because I saw the light long before you did?

He's on very thin ice indeed, i'd imagine. How can you justify keeping your place in the team when you're averaging 28 in the last 10 tests, and as captain you're not winning any games?

Smith won the game for SA. Great knock. But he was out 3 times. You can't provide for that.

Brass Monkey wrote:Smith won the game for SA. Great knock. But he was out 3 times. You can't provide for that.

Well some might say it was England who turned down the review system for this series.

taipan wrote:
Well some might say it was England who turned down the review system for this series.

OK, you can provide for that, but only if your stuffed shirts don't poopoo it.

Vaughan distraught as aura vanishes

Andrew Miller at Edgbaston

August 2, 2008




"I have no doubts about my captaincy ability," said Vaughan. "Absolutely none. But I am not scoring runs. As a No. 3 batsmen I have got to score runs and in this series what have I got? I have had some good balls, and a little bit of bad luck, but I set myself a lot of high standards and in this series so far I have not got anywhere near those standards. I want to look at that, and make sure I get back to playing like I can."

And so say all of us.

Steve James in the DT this morning suggests that he drop to #6.
Can't see him doing that myself ... too much yaw on the pride stakes.

Something however HAS to be done before the "special bond" he has with his players disappears, and one day a team member turns around to him and snaps:
" Well WTF are you going to score runs before you have a go at me?"

How can someone "lead by example" when that someone has no example to set in the first place?
And how long do the selectors give it till the example returns and before everyone cries - Enough!

He's gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.

But Vaughan isn't a "lead by example" leader ...His "big" series as Captain ( the run up to and including the 2005 Ashes) he averaged 38.75 ...and thats inflated by bashing the Windies and Bangers

embee wrote:But Vaughan isn't a "lead by example" leader ...His "big" series as Captain ( the run up to and including the 2005 Ashes) he averaged 38.75 ...and thats inflated by bashing the Windies and Bangers

I thought it was only SA that did that