Vengsarkar in "I am still in Cuckoo land" shock

Some people will never learn !

Presumably "paid" seectors is a euphamismism for "bribed"

Could be worse.... they could have Gashley

JKLever wrote:Could be worse.... they could have Gashley

I now have a vision of Gilo "performing" for Ganguly. Pass the bucket!

Vaengsarker = Coqsarkar?

There's not much that's wrong in that interview.

he was a great player to watch

doremi wrote:There's not much that's wrong in that interview.

So you too are living in a cuckoo-land.

Let us decide how many of us are in so called cuckoo-land as is Vengsarkar, according to Josh. I'm also there because I agree with many things that he said.

It is particularly this bit I take exception to

Chief selector Dilip Vengsarkar feels the combined failure of the experienced Indian middle-order batting in Sri Lanka was a one-off and expects the batsmen to put it firmly behind them and start afresh in the upcoming four-Test series against Australia.
.

It completely ignores the aspects of fitness, lethargy and poor fielding that the Indian team suffers from due to the ageing stars, not just the batting. It is the combined weight of all these aspects which a chief selector should be looking at in the interests of the overall balance of the team.

Its a tricky situation with indian middle-order. Sri Lankan series being an exception, they are not playing so bad that India needs to drop all of them and start fresh. Nor are they playing well enough to inspire confidence. Collectively, they are definitely in decline. And nobody knows how the young batsmen like Rohit Sharma, Badrinath or Suresh Raina are going to shape up at test level simply because they havent got chances yet. Best bet at the moment is to make one MO slot available for one of the younger players and see how it pans out.

My choice for the series against Aus will be:

Sehwag
Gambhir
Dravid
Laxman
Tendulkar
Raina
+Dhoni
Harbhajan
Kumble / Chawla
Zaheer
Ishant

Surely Kaif needs to he ahead of Raina etc. in the test areana.

Josh Carney wrote:Surely Kaif needs to he ahead of Raina etc. in the test areana.

Haven't seen much of Kaif recently,, but when he had his chances before he hardly inspired any confidence. Raina seems to be in good form and importantly he's playing with a lot of confidence. Being a left hander helps too.

From what I have seen off both, Kaif definitely is technically superior to Raina and that is important in tests particularly against Australia.

Josh Carney wrote:It is particularly this bit I take exception to

Chief selector Dilip Vengsarkar feels the combined failure of the experienced Indian middle-order batting in Sri Lanka was a one-off and expects the batsmen to put it firmly behind them and start afresh in the upcoming four-Test series against Australia.
.

It completely ignores the aspects of fitness, lethargy and poor fielding that the Indian team suffers from due to the ageing stars, not just the batting. It is the combined weight of all these aspects which a chief selector should be looking at in the interests of the overall balance of the team.

It is very true that the newcomers will have better fitness than Dravid or Laxman, but will they field better? Which newcomer do you think is an exceptional slip fielder? I've seen none. In fact I've seen them spilling catches at slips and elsewhere too in ODIS.

Now catching is the most important part of fielding at least in tests. Remember, it is not an ODI!

Now we come to batting. Even I believe that the collective failure in SL was a one off failure mainly because they could not figure out Ajantha Mendis. Australia doesn't have any such freak mystery bowlers. But even then these greats have fallen a bit from their high standards.

And now the question arises: are there any youngsters who can match even these fallen standards? The answer is a flat no. Because the replacements are:

Badrinath : does extremely well in domestic circuit but fails the moment a quality bowler appears. His terror against Tait's pace was hilarious. Yesterday also he was struggling big time against Gillespie's swing (even when the bowler was bowling at strictly medium pace) and was lucky to survive the early overs. After the ball got old, he started scoring freely. I don't give him even two overs against accurate and pacy Lee.

Rohit Sharma: He is a good batsman with correct technique etc, but is not ready for tests yet. He doesn't have the concentration to play big knocks. I'll back him to score against quality bowlers but the lapse of concentration will get him out in 20s or 30s. And we do not need 20s and 30s alone from a batsman against Australia. Plus a few flaws like playing across the line more and more (because of one day matches) and unable to negotiate indifferent bounce has been creeping in his batting since last few months. He needs to play domestic cricket, score big to show that he has the concentration and eradicate these flaws. Then he should be included in the team. But it is at least one year away.

Raina: No way. Is not a test player against quality bowlers.
Yuvraj: Has poorer fitness than these senior batsmen and is not a test player.

Who else do you want to include if you want to drop these batsmen?

Kaif ?

Josh Carney wrote:Surely Kaif needs to he ahead of Raina etc. in the test areana.

I agree here. Kaif is not an outstanding batsman but he is consistent and lost his test test place after WI series somewhat unfairly.

philcric wrote:Kaif ?

I've already assumed that he has replaced Ganguly in the test line up.

Raina in starting Indian XI and that too against Aus? You must be joking, phil.

He can't even lay bat to ball against half decent bowlers on any pitch thats not outrageously flat and you think he should be a regular in Indian XI!!

For once, I tend to agree with Josh. Kaif would be way ahead of Raina in pecking order.

SG wrote:For once, I tend to agree with Josh. Kaif would be way ahead of Raina in pecking order.

I think Kaif might be there in the starting XI. I can't see how Ganguly or anyone can take that spot now.

What extraordinary feats has Kaif suddenly performed, honestly unknown to me, that warrants him a place in the toughest and most important test series presently? If anyone has to play in the MO in place of one of the 'oldies', I'd rather it was Sharma, his bad run of form notwithstanding. Has looked the only one with the 'stuff' to make it. Ofcourse, I'd rather it stays as it is atleast till the Aussie tour finishes.

doremi wrote:What extraordinary feats has Kaif suddenly performed, honestly unknown to me, that warrants him a place in the toughest and most important test series presently? If anyone has to play in the MO in place of one of the 'oldies', I'd rather it was Sharma, his bad run of form notwithstanding. Has looked the only one with the 'stuff' to make it. Ofcourse, I'd rather it stays as it is atleast till the Aussie tour finishes.

Extra ordinary feat? In that what has any batsman done so apart from Sachin and Dravid and now Sehwag?

Kaif always performed well in tests whenever he was given a chance? Remember the 1st test vs England in 2006 in Bangalore? He scored a fighting 76 when India was in deep trouble. What reward did he get for that? Was promptly dropped for the 2nd test to accommodate Yuvraj Singh who only consistency is in failing.

Now rewind to tour WI in 2006. What bad did he do in that tour to be dropped from the team? He had to pay for his one day failings and to be honest, dropping him brought Ganguly back in the team for that golden one year.

Now that the selectors are looking to phase the seniors out and they have started this process by dropping Ganguly, Kaif is once again the player who performed the best on a tough pitch against Australia A's bowlers, three of whom are in the test squad.

As for the rest of the batsmen, see this post:

Chandan wrote:

Josh Carney wrote:It is particularly this bit I take exception to

Chief selector Dilip Vengsarkar feels the combined failure of the experienced Indian middle-order batting in Sri Lanka was a one-off and expects the batsmen to put it firmly behind them and start afresh in the upcoming four-Test series against Australia.
.

It completely ignores the aspects of fitness, lethargy and poor fielding that the Indian team suffers from due to the ageing stars, not just the batting. It is the combined weight of all these aspects which a chief selector should be looking at in the interests of the overall balance of the team.

It is very true that the newcomers will have better fitness than Dravid or Laxman, but will they field better? Which newcomer do you think is an exceptional slip fielder? I've seen none. In fact I've seen them spilling catches at slips and elsewhere too in ODIS.

Now catching is the most important part of fielding at least in tests. Remember, it is not an ODI!

Now we come to batting. Even I believe that the collective failure in SL was a one off failure mainly because they could not figure out Ajantha Mendis. Australia doesn't have any such freak mystery bowlers. But even then these greats have fallen a bit from their high standards.

And now the question arises: are there any youngsters who can match even these fallen standards? The answer is a flat no. Because the replacements are:

Badrinath : does extremely well in domestic circuit but fails the moment a quality bowler appears. His terror against Tait's pace was hilarious. Yesterday also he was struggling big time against Gillespie's swing (even when the bowler was bowling at strictly medium pace) and was lucky to survive the early overs. After the ball got old, he started scoring freely. I don't give him even two overs against accurate and pacy Lee.

Rohit Sharma: He is a good batsman with correct technique etc, but is not ready for tests yet. He doesn't have the concentration to play big knocks. I'll back him to score against quality bowlers but the lapse of concentration will get him out in 20s or 30s. And we do not need 20s and 30s alone from a batsman against Australia. Plus a few flaws like playing across the line more and more (because of one day matches) and unable to negotiate indifferent bounce has been creeping in his batting since last few months. He needs to play domestic cricket, score big to show that he has the concentration and eradicate these flaws. Then he should be included in the team. But it is at least one year away.

Raina: No way. Is not a test player against quality bowlers.
Yuvraj: Has poorer fitness than these senior batsmen and is not a test player.

Who else do you want to include if you want to drop these batsmen?

Chandan, I think Kaif made 90 odd in that innings at Bangalore you are referring to. On another occasion after making a fighting 50 in the one innings are Chennai against Australia he was dropped for Nagpur in favour of other bigger names and India lost that test badly and with that the series.

I think Kaif made 90 odd in that innings at Bangalore you are referring to

Don't think Eng has played a test at Chinnaswami since '01. I think the test you're referring to was played at Nagpur.