England v West Indies, 1st Test, Lord's, May 6-10

The England squad is announced on Wednesday. How many are they naming in the squad? 14? I reckon they'll go with-

Batsmen-

Strauss
Cook
Shah
Pietersen
Collingwood
Bopara
Bell

Keeper-

Prior

Bowlers-

Anderson
Broad
Harmison
Bresnan
Swann
Panesar

They'll have to decide if they want a 4 or 5 man attack. Broad's batting continues to develop, but he's not yet a test match number 7 yet, imo. I think the best combination will be 6 specialist bats, and 4 bowlers. Bell's early season form means he deserves to be in the 14, but they shouldn't rush to get him back in there on the back of 2 good scores on absolute roads. We all knew he could do that. I want to see him get some tough runs on a spicy track at Headingley or Trent Bridge before we can say that maybe he has turned the corner. From that squad, i'd go with-

Strauss(c)
Cook
Shah
Pietersen
Collingwood
Bopara
Prior+
Broad
Bresnan
Swann
Anderson

Bresnan to make his test debut. I see him as a bit of a young Hoggard clone who can bat.

I'd say Onions is quite high on the list of possible debuts too.


He's been thrown about the circuit quite recently.

Shah and Collingwood, having played no cricket whatsoever, would be walking a very dangerous path if I were selecting. Ace will be in big trouble anyway - if he gets a dig in this series he shall be very happy indeed. Bell will be recalled to bat at 3 and I expect Bopara to bat at 6. I would expect few changes from the last squad on top of that, personally. Unless we select a backstop...

As I said on t'other thread there is no way we can pick both Shah & Collingwood with them playing no cricket whatsoever.

I wouldn't actually pick either as a matter of principle - would the selectors pick someone from county cricket who hadn't appeared all season? Would they fark.

A recall for Bell is a bit of a nightmare because as Henry has pointed out he has done nothing that wasn't expected and is still to show he can score tough runs.

Come on down.... Michael Vaughan

JKLever wrote:I wouldn't actually pick either as a matter of principle - would the selectors pick someone from county cricket who hadn't appeared all season? Would they fark.

If he was in the England clique they would. But I agree, neither should play, but Collingwood definitely will especially to keep him sweet ahead of the World Twenty20 where he will be captain - for no reason other than him being the only candidate currently in the England clique.

A recall for Bell is a bit of a nightmare because as Henry has pointed out he has done nothing that wasn't expected and is still to show he can score tough runs.

It's never stopped them before - I'd be very surprised if Bell doesn't make the squad and very surprised if he didn't make the first Test side.

I'm no Bellhop fan .. as is well documented - however, they told him "Go forth and score big in County Cricket" - and that's exactly what he's done.

Shah and Collywobbles - neither deserve automatic picks at Lord's - at least Bops HAS had a coupla IPL circus gigs in safferland - so Bell and Bops ought to get the nod.

And as Gussie says, Colly's got to be kept sweet for the T20's ...

Vaughan .... hmmmm ... so wtf has he done so far with the bat to convince?

Final words - F**K Flintoff ... fed up with all the crap baggage he's now carrying. along with the numerous injury problems/operations.
Stats show he isn't ,any more, the Englnd talisman of 2005 ...

Merlin wrote:
Final words - F**K Flintoff ... fed up with all the crap baggage he's now carrying. along with the numerous injury problems/operations.
Stats show he isn't ,any more, the Englnd talisman of 2005 ...

Though forgetting his batting - he is still our best strike bowler imo. And it's that we'll need in the Ashes. But he HAS to be fit to be part of a 4 man attack - we can't tinker our side around just to suit him

JKLever wrote:

Merlin wrote:
Final words - F**K Flintoff ... fed up with all the crap baggage he's now carrying. along with the numerous injury problems/operations.
Stats show he isn't ,any more, the Englnd talisman of 2005 ...

Though forgetting his batting - he is still our best strike bowler imo. And it's that we'll need in the Ashes. But he HAS to be fit to be part of a 4 man attack - we can't tinker our side around just to suit him

But it's highly unlikely that he will be, and even if they think he is, the chances are he'll break down if he bowls more than 4/5 overs a day.

Sad to say, but Freddie's gawn for me now.

The sooner we move on the better.

Best is relative to the dross around him - Flintoff has been an average Test Match bowler for a few years and a terrible batsman. There's no point persisting with him when his continued selection is very much on a match-by-match basis. It's time to build a new team. A ruthless selection panel would have written off the likes of Flintoff, Harmison and Vaughan - England have only managed to write off one of their best servants in Matthew Hoggard.

JKLever wrote:

Merlin wrote:
Final words - F**K Flintoff ... fed up with all the crap baggage he's now carrying. along with the numerous injury problems/operations.
Stats show he isn't ,any more, the Englnd talisman of 2005 ...

Though forgetting his batting - he is still our best strike bowler imo.

well down the list in s/r

strike rates in last 3 years

Yeah, TO - the injuries meaning no rythym. No doubt he's been a shadow of himself since 2006 when the injuries started to kick in.

I've seen enough to suggest a fit Freddie given a run of games can produce the quality that is otherwise missing from our attack.

Liike others have said - 'a fit Fred' is looking a mile of right now, so it could be the end.

I'm up for one last huzzah in the Ashes, then he probably needs to look at what he wants to do.

Quicks for me agin the Windians at Lord's would be

Anderson
Broad

Sidebottom (providing he's 100 pct fit - and having his necessary low cloud cover and conditions to suit his swing).

or, if we have 26 deg C and blue skies all summer,
Saj Mah or Onions.

(There will be those who harken back to 2005 demanding the inclusion of 'Armless/Vorn/Freddy/SiJo et al ... but as BBB puts it ... time to move on ...)

Swann has be first pick for the spinners slot.

.

Merlin wrote:

Final words - F**K Flintoff ... fed up with all the crap baggage he's now carrying. along with the numerous injury problems/operations.
Stats show he isn't ,any more, the Englnd talisman of 2005 ...

Yeah... he's become a bit like the late-eighties Botham. Rarely fit and not doing much when he plays. Time to draw the line under his test career.

Woah, steady on.

Flintoff is still capable of 90mph bowling - nothing like an over the hill Beefy yet.

Freds problems are all fitness...

Yeah I agree with Lever, it all seemed it may fall into place, but it just hasn't. I don't expect we've got to get rid, it's quite sad the abundance of different injuries he's had in the last 3 years - Yet whatever anyone says, he's one of the better bowlers in world cricket when he's fit and although it's not something a side can continually gamble on, it doesn't mean he should just be shanked off. We haven't the stocks to afford to do it.

Freds problems are all fitness...

Aye, and Both's was his gut size!
But .... Beefy could still bat a bit even in his twilight years.

Fred's lost it with the bat ... sadly.

It's certainly mercurial - the thing is he needs time in the middle, something his body has not afforded of recent times.

Aye a bloody shame ... at his peak there's no denying Fred was an awesome player - (excellent slipper too, lest we forget) ... but time is running out for him IMO, so the sooner the selectors trial a couple of possible replacements, the better ... otherwise it might just be too late for the Ashes.

Merlin wrote:

Freds problems are all fitness...

Aye, and Both's was his gut size!
But .... Beefy could still bat a bit even in his twilight years.

Fred's lost it with the bat ... sadly.

Beefy lost it with the bat too - what was his average post 1986-7? Will have been 20 if lucky. Unlike Fred his bowling was also medium paced by then.

Fred may be shot as a batsman, but he can still be a decent bowler and lower order biffer. And as Monkeh says - we don't have such great bowling stocks to discard someone because they're having injury problems.

merlin wrote:Aye a bloody shame ... at his peak there's no denying Fred was an awesome player - (excellent slipper too, lest we forget) ... but time is running out for him IMO, so the sooner the selectors trial a couple of possible replacements, the better ... otherwise it might just be too late for the Ashes.

Yeah, obviously they'll have to think hard about the make up of the team in these 2 Tests, however Freddie should be fit for the Ashes so he shouldn't just be written out of it - he could last the series, if not overbowled.

Saying that, as you mentioned his batting's shot to ribbons, so he can't be trusted as a number 6. His fragility should suggest he can't be in a 4-man attack, so in most scenarios he hasn't got plenty in his favour.

We do know that he is reliable with the ball, if he can last, which is the only thing massively in his favour. He gives us an extra something.

... we don't have such great bowling stocks to discard someone because they're having injury problems.

No denying that.
But what would you rather ... a Beamer that keeps breaking down often and always at inopportune times ... or a reconditioned used Skoda wanting to impress?

I'd rather a 10% fit Freddie Flintoff than a 100% fit Amjad Khan if truth be told.

And i'm only half joshing when I say that.

No need to josh - I agree about Khan ... he's a bad joke!

I'm thinking more Saj or Onionbhaji or Tremble ... if Fred crocks again.

TBH, I'd wait for him to crock. They reckon the time between now and the Ashes is plenty for his recovery - therefore, he should be shooed in straight the way when this is hopefully the case. Then you worry about the team when he pulls up with... hmm, what hasn't he had.... an elbow injury halfway through the 2nd Test.