Is Kallis the most underrated great cricketer of all time?

by Henry Thu 17 Dec 2009, 06:43

Well?

He has a batting record as good as Tendulkar, and a bowling record as good as Botham, but who would have him in their all time great XI?

by taipan Thu 17 Dec 2009, 06:59

by JGK Thu 17 Dec 2009, 07:18

If he was Australian he wouldn't make my AT Australian list.

by The One Thu 17 Dec 2009, 07:37

he's got the numbers for sure

but so do moyo and jayawardene

by taipan Thu 17 Dec 2009, 07:39

Do they??

by Henry Thu 17 Dec 2009, 07:53

The One wrote:he's got the numbers for sure

but so do moyo and jayawardene

How many tests wickets do they both have?

by taipan Thu 17 Dec 2009, 08:08

Henry wrote:
The One wrote:he's got the numbers for sure

but so do moyo and jayawardene

How many tests wickets do they both have?

Probably one less than Boucher

by Guest Thu 17 Dec 2009, 08:11

Henry wrote:a bowling record as good as Botham

Come on now, mate.

by mirchy Thu 17 Dec 2009, 08:33

For me Kallis is the greatest fast-bowling all rounder of all time. I rate him higher than Kapil, considering that Kapil Dev wasn't that consistent with his batting.

by The One Thu 17 Dec 2009, 08:36

kapil and kallis are not in the same league. kapil was easily the weakest of the 4 great 80s all-rounders

kallis is a batting all-rounder, probably more comparable to sobers. as a bowler he cant get anywhere near imran, hadlee or miller

by The One Thu 17 Dec 2009, 08:38

kallis would come in below sobers, imran and miller for me. above botham, kapil and maybe even hadlee (though hadlee was a much greater bowler than kallis is a batsman)

but he would be nowhere near an all-time world xi

by mirchy Thu 17 Dec 2009, 09:08

(though hadlee was a much greater bowler than kallis is a batsman)

Which comparative parameters do you apply when comparing a batsman with a bowler?

by ten years after Thu 17 Dec 2009, 10:37

Henry wrote: .... a bowling record as good as Botham

Why wouldn't you take 3 minutes to check that before posting it?

Kallis 131 tests 257 wickets (1.96 per test) ave 31.06 sr 66 4 5fers
Botham 102 tests 383 wickets (3.75 per test) ave 28.4 sr 56.9 27 5fers

And thats after Botham's last 13 tests wrecked his figures.

Kallis is not even in the same league as a bowler.

by skully Thu 17 Dec 2009, 10:41

I don't underrate him. World class player.

by Brass Monkey Thu 17 Dec 2009, 10:44

ten years after wrote:
Henry wrote: .... a bowling record as good as Botham

Why wouldn't you take 3 minutes to check that before posting it?

Kallis 131 tests 257 wickets (1.96 per test) ave 31.06 sr 66 4 5fers
Botham 102 tests 383 wickets (3.75 per test) ave 28.4 sr 56.9 27 5fers

And thats after Botham's last 13 tests wrecked his figures.

Kallis is not even in the same league as a bowler.

Ridiculous statement, certainly. I just couldn't be bothered to reply to him. It's not even the figures - when has Kallis impacted a match with his bowling? Not many times, especially in the last 10 years. If profoundly ridiculous to parallel him it ITB.

by Merlin Thu 17 Dec 2009, 10:52

ten years after wrote:
Henry wrote: .... a bowling record as good as Botham

Why wouldn't you take 3 minutes to check that before posting it?

Kallis 131 tests 257 wickets (1.96 per test) ave 31.06 sr 66 4 5fers
Botham 102 tests 383 wickets (3.75 per test) ave 28.4 sr 56.9 27 5fers

And thats after Botham's last 13 tests wrecked his figures.

Kallis is not even in the same league as a bowler.

I'm glad you pointed that out tya, posts like

kallis would come in below sobers, imran and miller for me. above botham, kapil and maybe even hadlee (though hadlee was a much greater bowler than kallis is a batsman)

- whilst personal opinions, do kinda lose their way with the passing of time ...

My old man (who saw Miller play) reckoned he was the best at that time - BUT - later, having seen Sobers, Botham and Imran play, rated Miller below those three - however again - a purely personal opinion.
My point being that references to Miller on here can only be because of stats or legend ... and AFAIK Miller's stats (war interrupted) do not quite stack up with the likes of the above mentioned - the great cavalier that he was.
...which nicely leads back to the above stats which proves that - certainly in the bowling department ... Botham >> Kallis.

by ten years after Thu 17 Dec 2009, 11:08

A slight typo from me - Kallis has 5 5fers (2 v BD) but i don't think that changes my point.

Most of the great all rounders have been great bowlers and good batsmen. I think Imran was probably the best of these but Botham was not far behind.

Sobers is one of the few who were great batsmen and good bowlers. He was a better bat, a better bowler and a better fielder than Kallis so JK can't even hope for the All Time all rounder spot.

Miller was not great at either but was near enough to still be a great all-rounder

No-one has been great at both (though WG was at FC level).

by Guest Thu 17 Dec 2009, 12:49

If you are seriously going to put Kallis onto the top all-rounders board, then I think Wally Hammond has to be there too.

by philcric Thu 17 Dec 2009, 12:50

And Agarkar.

by JGK Thu 17 Dec 2009, 13:12

ten years after wrote:A slight typo from me - Kallis has 5 5fers (2 v BD) but i don't think that changes my point.

Most of the great all rounders have been great bowlers and good batsmen. I think Imran was probably the best of these but Botham was not far behind.

Sobers is one of the few who were great batsmen and good bowlers. He was a better bat, a better bowler and a better fielder than Kallis so JK can't even hope for the All Time all rounder spot.

Miller was not great at either but was near enough to still be a great all-rounder

No-one has been great at both (though WG was at FC level).

Miller's FC stats are bloody impressive.

by embee Thu 17 Dec 2009, 13:16

philcric wrote:And Agarkar.

tac wrote:Mo Matthews

by Guest Thu 17 Dec 2009, 14:23

Chris Matthews

by Brass Monkey Thu 17 Dec 2009, 14:30

You cannot diminish Miller's achievements. By all accounts, he was one of the greatest of all-time and certainly not out of company with your Imrans blah blah blah.

by Allan D Thu 17 Dec 2009, 14:51

Kallis is certainly the most under-rated batsman that could qualify as "great" since Kenny Barrington and the most under-rated bowler, by the same definition, since Alan Davidson.

by Brass Monkey Thu 17 Dec 2009, 15:08

Kallis, as a bowler, is a shitlemon. All well and good taking 250+ but a statistical analysis would point to him not even being a bowler for the last 9 years.

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