Ponting's career - in three parts

best 10 years run

tendulkar (1992-2002) - 84 matches, ave 62.55, 27 100s
dravid (1997-2007) - 99 matches, ave 59.34, 23 100s
ponting (1999-2009) - 105 matches, ave 61.61, 35 100s
kallis (1998-2008) - 104 matches, ave 62.71, 29 100s
waugh (1989-1999) - 89 matches, ave 57.21, 19 100s
sanga (2000-2010) - 90 matches, ave 58.90, 24 100s

stats:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;spanmax1=29+Nov+2002;spanmin1=30+Nov+1992;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/28114.html?class=1;spanmax1=15+Jan+2007;spanmin1=16+Jan+1997;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/7133.html?class=1;spanmax1=31+Dec+2008;spanmin1=01+Jan+1999;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/45789.html?class=1;spanmax1=09+Apr+2008;spanmin1=10+Apr+1998;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/8192.html?class=1;spanmax1=30+Apr+1999;spanmin1=01+May+1989;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/50710.html?class=1;spanmax1=31+Dec+2010;spanmin1=01+Jan+2001;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Ponting's career, three parts:

1 - whiny Australian youngling
2 - whiny Australian captain
3 - whiny Australian with zimmer frame

I doubt we'll ever see a batsman who averages 60 again for his career (assuming it's 50+ tests), let alone anyone approaching Bradman.

I think Sanga has the highest average of modern batsman with more than 30 innings (57). Then i'm guessing SRT(56) followed by Kallis(55).

Oh wait. Jonathan Trott averages 59 at the moment. How many innings has he played? 25? He plays for England, you know.

I'm sorry. I was wrong. Trott averages 60.73 after 26 test innings. I suspect that will fall down to around 45 in the next two years, but who really knows. He definitely looks a good player.

Henry wrote:I doubt we'll ever see a batsman who averages 60 again for his career (assuming it's 50+ tests), let alone anyone approaching Bradman.

only 2 batsmen in the history of cricket have averaged over 60 with 50+ tests - bradman and sutcliffe

srt, sanga or kallis will have to have a huge purple patch to end their careers and finish with a 60+ average

There's no way any of those guys will finish with a 60+ career average. They've played too much cricket already for huge scores to boost their averages enough.

It's funny that Sutcliffe is always considered an inferior batsman to Hobbs when talking about ATG players. He has an incredible record. Ian Chappell was saying something similar on commentary the other day when comparing Trott's average with England greats- Sutcliffe doesn't get the credit he deserves.

srt moved his average up from 54 to 57 beween oct 2008 and oct 2010

if he has another couple of years like that he has an outside chance

KP's average is getting back to where it should be, that double moved it from 47 odd to 49ish.

Henry wrote:I'm sorry. I was wrong. Trott averages 60.73 after 26 test innings. I suspect that will fall down to around 45 in the next two years, but who really knows. He definitely looks a good player.

I think he looks a terrible player, especially until he gets to 30 or so. His "footwork" is like Trescothick's, if not worse. And so there is alays the risk of beign bowled through the gate, or poor balance in the shot which sees him caught.

On the other hand, his functional efficiency (and good hand-eye coordination) tends to produce results more often than not. Again like Tres.


Perhaps the latter (= he produces ugly results) is what you meant.

Sehwag is overrated.

His moon face seems to shriek "I'm a massive flat track bully 90% of the time" at me through the TV.

As I turn away in horror I hear him cry "but I score quickly so people still want to touch my willy".

They're not pleasant experiences, mine and Virender's little chats.

1. Climb and Climb

2. Sublime and Fime (*)

3. Prime, Decline, and Blime, Blime, Blime (*)

4. Time Up


4. is not quite yet. Life in the old Dubya yet.


(* Stryne accent)

skully wrote:

JGK wrote:So, a AT World XI candidate over a third of his career but no better than Paul Collingwood for the remainder. It will be interesting to take a snap shot when he is in his 159th test some time next year where his career could literally be split into 3 periods by tests and time.

Hehehe, excellent summary, JGK. There's no doubt that Punter at his peak was the world's best at the time, but to be an ATG you have to maintain it over basically your whole career, ala DGB, AB, GSC. He has not done that, and at the moment he is almost a walking wicket.

I actually think wat you see here from Ponting is quite common, even among all time greats. Most great players break into the team early, because of their talent - perform well enough, but its usually a few years before they hit their peak. Also as the eyes start to go they are usually retained on grounds of experience and the fact that even if Ponting is not performing well by his standards, he is still averaging more than rivals like Hussey and North with an average of 42 or so I guess?

A few batsmen break this mould, but I would reckon most fit it. Some exceptions:

Gilchrist & Hussey - because the Aus team was so strong in the late 90s / early 2000s they only got a game well into their twenties, so they didn't have that initial 'learning the ropes' phase. Which would have boosted their batting average.

Graham Gooch - peaked very late, well into his 30s.

Bradman - He was a child prodigy, and didn't really have a late career dip either. I actually think he was probably a lot weaker batsman after the War, but England had suffered more and were struggling to field a decent team for several years, which masked his decline.

Tendulkar - A bit like Bradman, a machine, remarkably consistent.

lara had a career that was almost a mirror of pontings. he started off like a train, had a huge dip in form and almost retired, saw his average drop below 50 in the early 2000s and then had a big flourish at the end to see his career average bumped up above 53 by 2006

inzi was another who finished on a high. but funnily enough his last test innings where he scored 4 saw his career average just fall below 50 and saw him fall short of the pakistani aggregate record of miandad by a couple of runs

What is Lara's peak period?

Is it something like 50 tests and an average of 59?

JGK wrote:Steve Waugh probably would have had a 50 test run averaging 60ish.

I think from the Headingley Test in 1993 where he had that massive partnership with AB, until the end of the terrific West Indies tour of 1999, Waugh played 60 tests and averged 63 - all against the likes of Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Wasim, Waqar, Donald, Pollock, Gough, Caddick and Fraser, to name a few.

If you look at Steve Waugh's career from the start of the 1993 Ashes to the end of the 2001 Ashes you get the following stats:

87 matches - 6783 runs @ 61.66

During the first 40 Tests of that run he had an average of 72.52

I think he's been grossly underrated in this discussion.

in a winning team though coming in with the score on 3-200

Paul Keating wrote:in a winning team though coming in with the score on 3-200

Like in 1995 against the Windies?

Or Manchester in 1997?

I'd also add that 3 for 200 is not a winning score. It calls for someone to build on it to set up the win. Steve Waugh did this very well.

Great analysis Mr K. How much longer before old father time taps Ricky on the shoulder? Five years of batting returns as a skipper would be OK if the team was winning, but winning now looks like it will be an occasional treat, and no more, for quite a while for Australia. I think the WC should really be time's up.

Of course, there's the question of who to take over. And on contributions over the past 12 months, that would be nobody.

Hass wrote:

JGK wrote:Steve Waugh probably would have had a 50 test run averaging 60ish.

I think from the Headingley Test in 1993 where he had that massive partnership with AB, until the end of the terrific West Indies tour of 1999, Waugh played 60 tests and averged 63 - all against the likes of Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Wasim, Waqar, Donald, Pollock, Gough, Caddick and Fraser, to name a few.

If you look at Steve Waugh's career from the start of the 1993 Ashes to the end of the 2001 Ashes you get the following stats:

87 matches - 6783 runs @ 61.66

During the first 40 Tests of that run he had an average of 72.52

I think he's been grossly underrated in this discussion.

horrie just spat coffee all over his monitor.

Waugh's numbers are damned good but if he'd pulled them from no 3 or 4 they'd have looked even better....yeah I know where Sobers mostly batted....

Remind me again, how many innings has SRT had at number three..?

The only men (I think) who have scored over 5000 runs in a 50 test stretch (only the best block of 50 included):

Code:

    
Player  Runs   M   Inn   NO   Ave   100s   Start   End
Bradman   6977   50   77   10   104.13   29    29 Dec 1928    27 Jul 1948
Ponting   5619   50   89   13   73.93   22    19 Oct 2002    18 Dec 2006
Lara   5388   50   91   2   60.54   17    01 Dec 2000    29 Nov 2005
Sobers   5335   50   85   13   74.1   19    05 Feb 1958    03 Apr 1968
Kallis   5151   50   88   14   69.61   20    25 Oct 2002    18 Nov 2007
Sangakkara   5124   50   85   7   65.69   18    11 Aug 2004    07 Aug 2010
Tendulkar   5094   50   85   8   66.16   20    02 Aug 1997    03 Nov 2002
Mohammad Yousuf   5058   50   83   7   66.55   20    15 Nov 2000    22 Jan 2007

BTW, Hayden is next on the list with 4978 at 63 in his best 50 tests.

I'd also point out that the little legend AB scored 4362 runs at 61.44 in 50 tests between his renaissance in the thrilling Boxing Day Test in 1982 until the first test of the Windies tour in 88/9 - a period which pretty much covers our darkest days of the 80s.

I'd like to see Ponting with those sort of stats in our rebuilding phase.

And the elite who have scored 6000 runs over a period of no more than 60 tests:

Code:

Player   Runs   M   Inn   NO   Ave   100s   Start   End
Bradman   6977   51   78   10   102.60   29    29 Dec 1928    18 Aug 1948
Ponting   6449   60   105   16   72.46   25    22 Nov 2001    18 Dec 2006
Sobers   6137   60   104   13   67.44   21    20 Jun 1957    20 Feb 1969
Lara   6137   60   109   2   57.36   20    01 Dec 2000    01 Dec 2006
Kallis   6114   60   107   22   71.93   21    07 Sep 2001    11 Nov 2007