Six Nations 2012.

Gawwd that was poor.

The England ruggah buggahs must have been inspired by the cricket.

But good to see Panface Farrell in the managerial set-up, and his son doing fairly well on der-boo.

I didn't think Andy F was 'that' old, and indeed, he isn't. 36, son is 20.

Is that the closest age-gap between sporting fathers and sons who have won caps for England, in any sport?

Meh, a win's a win's a win.

With an almost completely new team and a new coach following on from the World Cup debacle, i'd take a tight win against the Scots at Murrayfield first up.

How much longer are they going to allow Italy to be the whipping boy of the 6 nations?

Big Dog wrote:How much longer are they going to allow Italy to be the whipping boy of the 6 nations?

Until they find a 7th

I guess thats why we are letting Argentina in to the tri nations

To be fair, they managed a decent win last season.

Good start for England, but on that form you would expect them to on the wrong end of at least two shoeings in their remaining games.

True. On that rather stuttering form, and all else being equal (i.e. the opposition is not worse!), you'd only have confidence in that team winning against Italy.

Nonertheless, have to say I'm glad of the wholesale changing of the guard this time. There are times you don't want to "throw the baby out with the bathwater", as they say - on this occasion, it was more like throwing out a few discredited grandads with the shower water.

The hope in appointing Martin Johnson, untested in charge off the field, had obviously been that his motivation and determination would rub off on his charges.I wondered for a start if that sort of osmosis would work (think of Keegan in charge of the England football, David Lloyd at the head of the cricket, etc etc.) ... by the last World Cup, it was obvious the old salts were taking Jonno for a ride.

Lancaster has reasonably effective experience in man management ... so it's a bit back to the Ashton principle of selection. If he is given a longer run, it remains to be seen if he turns out to be a Warren Gatland/Alex Ferguson or a Gareth Jenkins/Steve McLaren - or on the law of averages, somewhere in between.

As I said, I think it's a step forward to appoint Andy Farrell. Twice Man of Steel, World Cup Challenge winner, deserved O.B.E., good shrewd rugby brain, even a farqin goalkicker to boot, ~ came too late to Union to make an impression internationally in that code too (and also had to play out of position), ... but all in all, a good acquisition, I think.

His sprog looks promising, too.

Can't expect that much, I mean it could be a good indicator but you rarely if ever see a decent Eng/Sco match in terms of execution of skills.

Good enough win - as BM says, not many England v Jocks games inspire "excellent flowing" rugby.

Can't see that performance undoing the Frogs though... nor possibly the Oirish.
Mid table finish I suspect.

PeterCS wrote:Gawwd that was poor.

The England ruggah buggahs must have been inspired by the cricket.

But good to see Panface Farrell in the managerial set-up, and his son doing fairly well on der-boo.

What was the state of the pitch and the weather through the match Pete?

Mick Sawyer wrote:

PeterCS wrote:Gawwd that was poor.

The England ruggah buggahs must have been inspired by the cricket.

But good to see Panface Farrell in the managerial set-up, and his son doing fairly well on der-boo.

What was the state of the pitch and the weather through the match Pete?

Hey Mick, people are asking were you are.

Raining at Murrayfield - coldish, but not as bad as it was down South at the Stade ... where it was -3C and snowing!!

Heard the Ire / Wal game was a real decent showcase for not playing like Eng? Shame I missed it... sounds like a proper ducker.

Big Dog wrote:How much longer are they going to allow Italy to be the whipping boy of the 6 nations?

They've beaten Scotland more often than not in recent years, it's probably just Scotland's decent record against England that has condemned the Italians to a couple more wooden spoons!

Like Scotland they're competitive up front but don't have much of a cutting edge. If England play as badly in Rome as at Murrayfield I wouldn't rule out a bit of history being made.

Sorry Mick, was offline. As Merls says, it was cold, and also a bit slimy (the England shirts had the dye of the sponsors' paint all over them) but the pitch didn't rule out running rugby. It's just that there wasn't a lot of line-breaking, and both defences were fairly sound.

Not sure which way the SN might turn this year.

It would be a start for England if they could hold off Italy in doubtlessly sunny Rome.

Another undewrwhelming Lilywhite performance.

Overall, I'm glad the England pressure in the last quarter did not convert into many points. It would have tempted some spectators (and players. handlers?) to believe all was well.

Problems aplenty, not all teething problems of an overhauled and inexperienced side.

Unless there is something in the planning, orders, tactics or whatever that is not evident to those outside the inner sanctum,. Youngs looks out of his depth as an international Number 9. He is ponderous, deadly slow on the feed, and lacking ideas. (Excellent sure-footed tackler and 100%er, though.) I'm not sure DIckson is the answer either - but at least when he came on he showed dynamism, intent and willingness to explore the options intelligently (he doesn't LOOK like a scrum half, so long and slim he has to crouch for most fetching & feeding actions - but got the line going and drove England forward, which Youngs had singularly failed o do - again.) Odd this, because Youngs is normally quick on his feet and on the uptake too. A couple of times he has come on as a replacement utility back and played a starring understudy role. Maybe that's his best function.

Odd also for an England team, the forwards look a bit sluggish in set plays, and the front row in particular (until the last quarter) fragile in the scrum. (What is Rowntree supposed to be doing?) The hooker (Hartley) was absolutely BA on the throw-in too ..... back to the "halcyon" days when a young Thompson was throwing either to the opposition, or crooked. It may be that the codes or summat weren't working, the second rowers may have been dozy, but it was in any case an abject lesson in throwing in to the lineout.

Despite scoring the try from the chargedown (again), Chargedown Charlie looked a pale imitation of Toby Flood, whose distributional skills were missed.

So what cheer?

A win is a win, I suppose. Italy missed Fidel John The Baptist when his ribs got knackered and he went off. But they are still a decent team nowadays, despite woody's disparaging remak near the top of the thread.

And the back five were generally good, in defence especially, not too bad in attack either whenever they could get the ball. ~ Strange turnaround for an England team.

However, England can expect to get flattemed three times if they don't pick up from these underwhelming performances (and I would say make a couple of pivotal changes - at 2 and 9).

Frogs vs Paddies called off almost at kickoff. Has anything like this ever happened before in international rugby?

Ireland should be awarded the match, no excuse for a stadium like that not to have undersoil heating and even more shambolic to call it off right before kick-off.

...As well as playing a midwinter match that late in the evening... though the people involved in broadcasting rights are probably more to blame than anyone else for the timing. Considering the way the camera lenses were freezing over, the decision, though no doubt unpopular, was, perhaps, the right one.

Joyzus, Blighty only just got out of gaol v the Spaghetti-eaters.

This is funny...

Must say, though - had it happened to a soccer match in South Africa, England or South America, the outcome may have been much more disastrous.

skully wrote:Joyzus, Blighty only just got out of gaol v the Spaghetti-eaters.

A win is a win is a win skulls - no matter how ugly.

I know ... it's sad ... but the playing conditions were atrocious ... and England did gift the Italians two tries ...
Good to see them regroup and come back to win ... ugly as it was.