Wimblenod

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Re: Wimblenod

Post by Red on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 03:11

Many observers on radio yesterday suggested that it's hard for the average person to get access to tennis courts. They've either been privatised or disappeared altogether. Resurgence and emergence of Europeans has been a factor too.
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Re: Wimblenod

Post by WideWally on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 07:05

I blame John Alexander.

When I was a youngster I would listen to the ABC sports news every morning & hear about the successes of Laver, Newcombe, Rosewall, Emerson, Roche, Stolle, Fraser, Bowrey, etc

Then one day I heard someone saying "John Alexander will be the next outstanding Australian tennis player". It all went downhill from that moment on.
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Re: Wimblenod

Post by taipan on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 07:16

WideWally wrote:I blame John Alexander.

When I was a youngster I would listen to the ABC sports news every morning & hear about the successes of Laver, Newcombe, Rosewall, Emerson, Roche, Stolle, Fraser, Bowrey, etc

Then one day I heard someone saying "John Alexander will be the next outstanding Australian tennis player". It all went downhill from that moment on.

I am am sure Pat Cash will be glad to hear that.

P.S. Skully's real name is John Alexander?
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Re: Wimblenod

Post by horace on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 07:19

WideWally wrote:I blame John Alexander.

When I was a youngster I would listen to the ABC sports news every morning & hear about the successes of Laver, Newcombe, Rosewall, Emerson, Roche, Stolle, Fraser, Bowrey, etc

Then one day I heard someone saying "John Alexander will be the next outstanding Australian tennis player". It all went downhill from that moment on.

quite...he was always touted to win at Wimbledon but usually was long gone by the third round...

...and then he was an embittered coach/commentator with neither charm nor acuity...no wonder he is on the Lib back bench
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Re: Wimblenod

Post by WideWally on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 07:24

taipan wrote:
WideWally wrote:I blame John Alexander.

When I was a youngster I would listen to the ABC sports news every morning & hear about the successes of Laver, Newcombe, Rosewall, Emerson, Roche, Stolle, Fraser, Bowrey, etc

Then one day I heard someone saying "John Alexander will be the next outstanding Australian tennis player". It all went downhill from that moment on.

I am am sure Pat Cash will be glad to hear that.

We went from about 8 male players winning major titles (many of them winning multiple titles) in that period from the early 60s to the early 70s to 3 players winning major titles in the period from the late 70s to the present. I'd say that is downhill. We even had Mark Edmondson winning a title in the mid 70s when Alexander was supposed to be our great hope!
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Re: Wimblenod

Post by horace on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 07:24

australia is to tennis as

the blooz are to state of origin

the greeks are to financial management

(historically) the english have been to the ashes

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Re: Wimblenod

Post by taipan on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 07:28

WideWally wrote:
taipan wrote:
WideWally wrote:I blame John Alexander.

When I was a youngster I would listen to the ABC sports news every morning & hear about the successes of Laver, Newcombe, Rosewall, Emerson, Roche, Stolle, Fraser, Bowrey, etc

Then one day I heard someone saying "John Alexander will be the next outstanding Australian tennis player". It all went downhill from that moment on.

I am am sure Pat Cash will be glad to hear that.

We went from about 8 male players winning major titles (many of them winning multiple titles) in that period from the early 60s to the early 70s to 3 players winning major titles in the period from the late 70s to the present. I'd say that is downhill. We even had Mark Edmondson winning a title in the mid 70s when Alexander was supposed to be our great hope!

I would say from middle 50s. From memory Hoad won his titles in the 50s and Rosewall lost the 54 Wimbledon title to Drobny.

Almost mentioned Edmondson but he only won the Aussie when it had a fairly low profile.
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Re: Wimblenod

Post by WideWally on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 07:35

We won a stack of major titles in the 50s. Hoad, Cooper, Sedgeman, Rose, Anderson, etc.

I was referring to that period from the early 60s to the early 70s because that was when I would be listening to the sports on ABC radio.
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Re: Wimblenod

Post by lardbucket on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 08:29

Australia was good at tennis when it was predominantly played on grass courts ... our climate favoured us over other countries with poor climates and poor outdoor facilities.

Now that Stalinist robotic tennis on soulless synthetic courts is de rigeur, tennis favours those countries with Stalinist robotic coaching rather than those with outdoor lifestyles.

I'm half serious ...

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Re: Wimblenod

Post by taipan on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 08:31

lardbucket wrote:Australia was good at tennis when it was predominantly played on grass courts ... our climate favoured us over other countries with poor climates and poor outdoor facilities.

Now that Stalinist robotic tennis on soulless synthetic courts is de rigeur, tennis favours those countries with Stalinist robotic coaching rather than those with outdoor lifestyles.

I'm half serious ...

From my reading I believe Hopman's coaching was pretty rigid.
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Re: Wimblenod

Post by lardbucket on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 08:32

I don't think he had much influence on the development of the likes of Margaret Court, Evonne Goolagong, Ken Fletcher, Rod Laver, or Ken Rosewall.

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Re: Wimblenod

Post by taipan on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 08:35

lardbucket wrote:I don't think he had much influence on the development of the likes of Margaret Court, Evonne Goolagong, Ken Fletcher, Rod Laver, or Ken Rosewall.

Not the women, but definitely big time Laver and Rosewall
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Re: Wimblenod

Post by lardbucket on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 08:36

My understanding is that Laver's game evolved in Rockhampton, a long way from Hopman.

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Re: Wimblenod

Post by taipan on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 08:42

Hopman was the very successful captain-coach of 22 Australian Davis Cup teams between 1939 and 1967. With players such as Frank Sedgman, Ken McGregor, Lew Hoad, Ken Rosewall, Rod Laver, Neale Fraser, John Newcombe, Fred Stolle, Tony Roche, Roy Emerson, Ashley Cooper, Rex Hartwig, Mervyn Rose, and Mal Anderson he won the Cup an unmatched 16 times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Hopman
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Re: Wimblenod

Post by vilkrang on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 08:45

horace wrote:australia is to tennis as

the blooz are to state of origin

the greeks are to financial management

(historically) the english have been to the ashes

Embarassingly poor WU attempt, as usual H.

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Re: Wimblenod

Post by lardbucket on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 08:52

taipan wrote:Hopman was the very successful captain-coach of 22 Australian Davis Cup teams between 1939 and 1967. With players such as Frank Sedgman, Ken McGregor, Lew Hoad, Ken Rosewall, Rod Laver, Neale Fraser, John Newcombe, Fred Stolle, Tony Roche, Roy Emerson, Ashley Cooper, Rex Hartwig, Mervyn Rose, and Mal Anderson he won the Cup an unmatched 16 times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Hopman

AD-esque wiki search ... how is this inconsistent with my comments though?

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Re: Wimblenod

Post by taipan on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 08:55

lardbucket wrote:
taipan wrote:Hopman was the very successful captain-coach of 22 Australian Davis Cup teams between 1939 and 1967. With players such as Frank Sedgman, Ken McGregor, Lew Hoad, Ken Rosewall, Rod Laver, Neale Fraser, John Newcombe, Fred Stolle, Tony Roche, Roy Emerson, Ashley Cooper, Rex Hartwig, Mervyn Rose, and Mal Anderson he won the Cup an unmatched 16 times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Hopman

AD-esque wiki search ... how is this inconsistent with my comments though?

No, I was just backing up my comments from books I have read which are not available on the net.

There is no doubt that if you read about tennis in the 50s that Hopman had a major influence on all the Aussie players of that era. I guess you are not up to speed on this.
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Re: Wimblenod

Post by lardbucket on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 09:00

So you see the decline of grass courts and the evolution of larger rackets and big hitting, with Connors in the van of that new style, as irrelevant to the Mcdonaldisation and ruin of tennis as a spectacle?

I would maintain that Laver came to Hopman as a fully developed player; Hopman was his coach/manager rather than a developmental coach.

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Re: Wimblenod

Post by vilkrang on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 09:02

Nadal's style of play wouldn't have won him anything in the 70s and 80s. It's a shame that such a negative style has become so succuessful and it's only likely to get worse.

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Re: Wimblenod

Post by lardbucket on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 09:05

vilkrang wrote:Nadal's style of play wouldn't have won him anything in the 70s and 80s. It's a shame that such a negative style has become so succuessful and it's only likely to get worse.

I agree with that ... tennis has becoming a very boring game, although women's tennis has its highlights

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Re: Wimblenod

Post by taipan on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 09:13

lardbucket wrote:So you see the decline of grass courts and the evolution of larger rackets and big hitting, with Connors in the van of that new style, as irrelevant to the Mcdonaldisation and ruin of tennis as a spectacle?

I would maintain that Laver came to Hopman as a fully developed player; Hopman was his coach/manager rather than a developmental coach.

There is no doubt that the big head raquets have ruined the sport. Unfortunately the original rule makers didn't envision raquets being made of any material other than wood, so neglected to specify a maximum raquet size. So when the bigger raquets evolved they tried to limit the size but faced with massive law suits they had to back down. The same thing happened in golf.

Obviously Laver had a reasonable game when he arrived at Hopman. My understanding is that he was still wild and woolly then. I can remember a quote in Gordon Forbes' book. I will look it up tonight.
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Re: Wimblenod

Post by Big Dog on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 09:24

vilkrang wrote:Nadal's style of play wouldn't have won him anything in the 70s and 80s. It's a shame that such a negative style has become so succuessful and it's only likely to get worse.

I also totally agree. I rarely watch tennis these days because it has become so predictable & boring. There are no 'characters' these days. I long to see players like Connors, McEnroe, Cash, Becker, Noah, Borg, Ivanisevic et al. Players who really 'played' instead of standing at the base line & smashing the ball back with their over sized racquet's.
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Re: Wimblenod

Post by JGK on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 10:49

I don't know about all that. I have never seen a player as good to watch as Federer. Maybe McEnroe comes close but for different reasons.

And have to admit to quite liking Rafa with his energy and power and friggin massive ticker.

I do miss the art of volleying though.

Borg was pretty robotic, let alone a whole bunch of Swedes (Edberg excluded) and Lendl and even Sampras.

Tennis might as well be a different game now with the slower courts, stiffer rackets and tighter strings. Interestingly, I think the size of the heads has actually reduced a little over the last decade (since the likes of Chang for instance) but the rigidity and increased sweet spot makes it easier to hit top spin with power and accuracy making passing a whole lot easier. Hence the decline in volleying.

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Re: Wimblenod

Post by skully on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 10:55

At great risk of a Badger Pack spray about 12 year old boys farting in bed, here is the tidy little thing that beat Sammy today...Dutchy Arantxa Rus...

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Re: Wimblenod

Post by vilkrang on Thu 28 Jun 2012, 12:40

skully wrote:At great risk of a Badger Pack spray about 12 year old boys farting in bed, here is the tidy little thing that beat Sammy today...Dutchy Arantxa Rus...

Some os us prefer women with breasts and curves. Or in other words, some of us prefer women that don't have the physique of a 12 year old boy, and you were the one that brought up farting which is pretty weird. If I'm in bed with a fit bird the last thing I would be thinking of would be farting. 12 year old boys probably find it funny though Wink .

In all seriousness though you don't need to get so defensive, you like skinny girls it would seem, absolutely nothing wrong with that, but equally you don't need to get all flustered because other people prefer curves and boobs. This isn't an attack so please don't take it as one.

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Re: Wimblenod

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