ATG bowlers of the last 30 years

so was just thinking that right now steyn seems to be the only ATG bowler around, with some who have started out having a chance of getting in

then i thought who would be the ATG bowlers i have seen and the usual suspects came up. i think more than batting averages, bowling averages do give us a very good idea of what makes one an ATG

would this be a fair criteria (for bowlers post 1980s) - minimum wickets - 300. average below 26 (i must admit 25 sounds better, but that excludes warne, which does not seem fair)

that would give us only 10 such bowlers in the last 30 years. quite a rare species indeed

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=wickets;qualmax2=26;qualmin1=300;qualval1=wickets;qualval2=bowling_average;spanmax1=31+Dec+2013;spanmin1=01+Jan+1984;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

I don't think you can give a 'criteria' to greatness based on stats. In my opinion, stats are there to confirm or conflict what you see with your eyes.

Also depends if you want to include chuckers.

Imo the top ten great bowlers of the last 30 years-

1. Warne
2. Marshall
3. Ambrose
4. Wasim
5. Hadlee
6. Steyn
7. Mcgrath
8. Muralitharan
9. Donald
10. Waqar

Yeah, I've probably missed someone obvious.

Is that in order?

Imran
Holding
Bishop

If Marshall and Hadlee get in doesn't Lillee get in too? All careers started more than 30 years and and ended less than 30 years ago.

Paul Keating wrote:Imran
Holding
Bishop

Yes, Imran is the obvious one I forgot.

Holding wasn't as good after 1982 (the last 30 years) as he was from 1976-1980, when he was simply awesome.

Bishop?? May as well add Jason Gillespie and Shane Bond.

Henry wrote:

Paul Keating wrote:Imran
Holding
Bishop

Yes, Imran is the obvious one I forgot.

Holding wasn't as good after 1982 (the last 30 years) as he was from 1976-1980, when he was simply awesome.

Bishop?? May as well add Jason Gillespie and Shane Bond.

And Ntini.

Let's say guys who started their careers less than 30 years ago:

Warne
McGrath
Ambrose
Wasim
Murali*

Steyn likely to join them IMO.

Great bowlers just less than ATG level:

Donald
Walsh
Waqar

I guess TO's stats list pretty much has everyone starting after 1980 (well except Agarkar). Pollock probably lucky to be in there but he's almost of that level.

doremi wrote:I guess TO's stats list pretty much has everyone starting after 1980 (well except Agarkar). Pollock probably lucky to be in there but he's almost of that level.

421@23 is lucky?

i meant the list for players who have had all of their career in the last 30 years. the obvious ones who had parts of their career within this period are marshall, imran, hadlee, etc

since there has been an explosion of tests in the last 20 years a 300 wicket minimum is probably needed to ensure only bowlers who have had sustained brilliance make the list

before the 80s you could probably bring the cut-off down to 200 wickets

Henry wrote:

Paul Keating wrote:Imran
Holding
Bishop

Yes, Imran is the obvious one I forgot.

Holding wasn't as good after 1982 (the last 30 years) as he was from 1976-1980, when he was simply awesome.

Bishop?? May as well add Jason Gillespie and Shane Bond.

Before his back injury many suggested that Bishop was going to be better than any quick from the islands ever.

But his career was superb nonetheless. A small g great.

Bishop was brilliant and fearsome before his back injury. Afterwards he was pretty good but not the bowler he once was.

You could say the same about Waqar. Between 1990 and 1995 he was amazing. Arguably the most lethal fast bowler of all time.

Henry's list is very good, Imran can come in slightly ahead of Steyn and on par with Hadlee. Waqar vs Donald is a very tough one

Ashley Giles?

Tony Allcock?

Walter Ray Williams junior?

Madge Bishop?

Bruce Martin?

Paul Keating wrote:Imran
Holding
Bishop

No
No
No

JGK wrote:Let's say guys who started their careers less than 30 years ago:

Warne
McGrath
Ambrose
Wasim
Murali*

Steyn likely to join them IMO.

Great bowlers just less than ATG level:

Donald
Walsh
Waqar

aye

What does ATG mean?

What's the objective qualification?

PeterCS wrote:What does ATG mean?

What's the objective qualification?

Your write your own. The criteria must allow your favourites and exclude the nobspankers from (country/ies of your choice) and javelin throwers.