England player ratings

Basil wrote:

taipan wrote:

Gary 111 wrote:No one has mentioned Onions? I'd have thought the best way to see if Anderson has still got it would be to pick a direct replacement alongside him for Sri Lanka in May and see how he performs.

As for Stokes, I think his emergence will mean Bresnan is put out to pasture.

Onions hasn't done much in SA this season

Onions isn't the answer - his pace was down last season and you factor in half his cricket being played at Chester-Le-Street. Jordan on the other hand is definitely one to consider.

Yeah but wasnt he just as effective in away matches?

Seems to have hardly bowled in SA, and considering he's a specialist new ball bowler then selecting him to bowl second change probably isnt the wisest but 4 wkts @ 28 isnt the worst.

Its not all about pace, someone who can be relied on to bowl a decent line and length would be a start.

Basil wrote:Swann's gone for good. His stats in our Summer masked a decline in his ability which was cruelly exposed in the current series.

Cook will be skipper come the first test against Sri Lanka but I would rate his chances of still being in the job by 2015 as no more than 50/50 - it all depends on how he reacts to this whipping.

I will put my mortgage on Prior being in place for the first test next Summer. After him - who knows. I think Steve Davies is probably the most mature of the likely replacements, but he hasn't come within a bull's roar of the side since the last Ashes tour. Buttler is the chosen keeper for the ODI's but he really needs to score some runs in the first class game as well as improving his keeping which currently is on a par with Bairstow's.

The thing with Cook is- He can't be MADE into an aggressive captain. He either is or he isn't. He wont do any sort of job unless he is himself. If England want a more attacking brand of cricket on the field, then the combination of Cook and Flower as captain and coach simply wont work.

Onions is older than Anderson though, isn't he... would be a desperation move now.

beamer wrote:Onions is older than Anderson though, isn't he... would be a desperation move now.

I'm not for throwing away all our best available players just for the sake of it.

We have a massive series against India coming up, then we're in the Windies - always my favourite tour (to watch on TV, never been sadly) and then an Ashes in 2015.

That's why we need to keep KP, Bell and Anderson if they still have the necessary desire.

Its also why I wouldn't rule out players like Carbs, Compton, Trott, Prior, Onions, Panesar. If they are performing well in county cricket all of them could well be in the mix for 2015 and our glorious revenge when we win a 5 Test series 6-0. Its never been done before and that's something to aim for.

Maybe the Flower era will end as it started - being skittled for 50 in the Caribbean. Then we will sensationally poach HFRS with a multi-million pound offer on the eve of the Ashes...

Gary 111 wrote:

beamer wrote:Onions is older than Anderson though, isn't he... would be a desperation move now.

I'm not for throwing away all our best available players just for the sake of it.

We have a massive series against India coming up, then we're in the Windies - always my favourite tour (to watch on TV, never been sadly) and then an Ashes in 2015.

That's why we need to keep KP, Bell and Anderson if they still have the necessary desire.

Its also why I wouldn't rule out players like Carbs, Compton, Trott, Prior, Onions, Panesar. If they are performing well in county cricket all of them could well be in the mix for 2015 and our glorious revenge when we win a 5 Test series 6-0. Its never been done before and that's something to aim for.

How do we know if they have the desire? By asking them? They may not be honest enough to say they don't. There's a lot of money involved with being an England cricketer, especially for guys like Anderson and Bell who will never have a big IPL contract to fall back on. The only way we can see if they have the desire or not is to show it on the field, and in this series several of them showed f*ck all.

I think Bell still has quite a lot of test cricket in him, and we'll have to accept that occasionally he'll infuriate- He's still technically the best batsman in English cricket. But I'm not so sure about KP and Anderson. I've got a feeling KP might do a Kallis and announce he's retiring from tests to focus on the IPL World Cup in 2015.

Unfortunately it was obvious from the first day of the second test that it would be 5-0. Stokes and Panesar were panic selections (and others later on) and the body language that game was pathetic. That Stokes ultimately did quite well does not hide it.

No one wanted to be there or enjoyed that tour. That is a worse problem than not being technically good enough or skillful enough.

I can take losing 5-0 but they are such a bunch of negative, sullen, joyless bastards at the moment. Dead-eyed. Every f*cking game. We aren't going to win anything like that, and when it's so obvious it's a blatant motivation for the other team as well. Coach and captain to go. Cook can be a joyless opener if he wants, not a captain.

Also, what have they done to Finn that he cannot get a game even now???

I think Finn must share some responsibility for his current malaise. Coaches at this level should be there to adjust minor things and for advising on tactics - not dismantling and reconstructing a player's basic technique.

In compiling these ratings, are we taking into account the crucial catches that Root took as a substitute in this last match??

Brass Monkey wrote:Ratings? F*ck ratings. Do you search for the little good bits of poo in your diarrhoea?

.......

Probably the most memorable line I have read on this forum, perhaps even online, but I wish to god I could forget it.

Henry wrote:

Gary 111 wrote:

beamer wrote:Onions is older than Anderson though, isn't he... would be a desperation move now.

I'm not for throwing away all our best available players just for the sake of it.

We have a massive series against India coming up, then we're in the Windies - always my favourite tour (to watch on TV, never been sadly) and then an Ashes in 2015.

That's why we need to keep KP, Bell and Anderson if they still have the necessary desire.

Its also why I wouldn't rule out players like Carbs, Compton, Trott, Prior, Onions, Panesar. If they are performing well in county cricket all of them could well be in the mix for 2015 and our glorious revenge when we win a 5 Test series 6-0. Its never been done before and that's something to aim for.

How do we know if they have the desire? By asking them?

That's part of the coach's role.

furriner wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:Ratings? F*ck ratings. Do you search for the little good bits of poo in your diarrhoea?

.......

Probably the most memorable line I have read on this forum, perhaps even online, but I wish to god I could forget it.

Yes, he does have a way with words doesn't he? Like a sweary Winston Churchill.

beamer wrote:Maybe the Flower era will end as it started - being skittled for 50 in the Caribbean. Then we will sensationally poach HFRS with a multi-million pound offer on the eve of the Ashes...

You need to give him 6-8 months.

beamer wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:He's toast. In his autobiography he says he doesn't like training and doesn't like doing technical work. What use is he when his natural revs start to decline (which they have)? He doesn't want to do the work, he doesn't want to think about his game.

He's got nothing to offer.

Well, we've seen how much good technical work and analysis does... perhaps we should make him coach! With Gough as his assistant, that would be fun...

*eek* I hope that was said ironically.

Otherwise, despair can drive you to the dense position of Mick Vaughan, analyste extraordinaire, whose patent solution to England's batting ills in the latter part of the series was "why don't they just forget all the coaching manuals, the training routines and all that and just go out and HIT it??"

The problem demonstrated by the England batting hardly seems one of England taking technique - and where needed, remedial technical work - too seriously, but rather, not seriously or professionally enough. Not preparing properly.

Yes of course, if the England batsmen are neurotically still digesting batting manuals, tottering glassy-eyed and stoned from countless hours of videos, thinking of a hundred different, conflicting pieces of advice as they stand transfixed at the crease and so not even watching the farqin ball coming, then Vaughan would have a decent point.

The real problem, surely, lies not identifying and dealing with evident weaknesses, repeat-practising good batsmanship until a better, technically sounder approach becomes "second nature", part of the general reflexes and confident alertness of good play.

And yes, of course, such technical work should be part of a good, workmanlike and where necessary, supportive approach to cricket.

Henry wrote:

I think Bell still has quite a lot of test cricket in him, and we'll have to accept that occasionally he'll infuriate- He's still technically the best batsman in English cricket.

Anybody who makes it to the top level of any sport is technically quite good. The difference lies mostly in the mental aspect of things.

Bell is a country mouse.

taipan wrote:

Gary 111 wrote:No one has mentioned Onions? I'd have thought the best way to see if Anderson has still got it would be to pick a direct replacement alongside him for Sri Lanka in May and see how he performs.

As for Stokes, I think his emergence will mean Bresnan is put out to pasture.

Onions hasn't done much in SA this season

He's in the same boat as Tremlett - a year or so off for a back operation, and he's not the same bowler he was.

The impression of Onions' recovery is clouded by the fact that he plays on the juiciest greentop in the country week in, week out, where 70mph trundlers can take stacks of wickets.

I thought I Ron Belfard tossed the towel in when Chin fled...he was clearly unhappy batting at 3...of the english bats, Stokes - clearly, KP - partially and Carbs for effort in often blunting the new bal deserved credits...cannot believe chef could have a worse series...he's the best english bat for decades and must be persisted with...Ballance had one test and showed a little...Nephew cannot play bounce and score in front of the wicket, while Trott, Prior and knickers have fatal flaws...

a new keeper is required

with the ball, Cliffeh Richards tried hard, Broad was dangerous at particular moments but was unable to bowl tight and Stokes looks a wicket taker...nothing to say about the others

horace wrote:a new keeper is required

Or the old one needs to find his form back. Won't put it past him, he's been as bad before, and saved England a series just last year.

tricycle wrote:

horace wrote:a new keeper is required

Or the old one needs to find his form back. Won't put it past him, he's been as bad before, and saved England a series just last year.

WIsh he hadn't - he papered over the cracks. It would've been better for England to lose in NZ, as they deserved to, and do a bit of soul searching before the Ashes started.

Yeah, this sort of thumping has been on the cards since the UAE. It MUST elicit some form of change because we've been hobbling through series since 2011.

Swann getting a 2 is a bit OTT.

The rat that jumped the sinking ship (and then brazenly criticized his own dressing room thereafter) deserves no more than a minus 5. Absolute arsehole.

The epitomy of a coward - My one hope is that he never comes near an England dressing room in the future.

Brass Monkey wrote:Yeah, this sort of thumping has been on the cards since the UAE. It MUST elicit some form of change because we've been hobbling through series since 2011.

Was it though? Against this opposition? There have been some embarrassing performances like the 600/2 (and of course, NZ away, but that wasn't as embarrassing), but they did beat the same opposition 3-0 a few months ago. A series tighter than the score suggested, but still won all the clutch moments.

We had no clue against the last team to be able to test us properly: SA. This is in between struggling against relative no marks. We had the rub of the green in the previous series, yet looked very shaky at the same time. We banked on outstanding individual performances to wrest the games from Australia - you can't keep relying on such instances.

We got a team to test us consistently and we crumbled into dust. The batting unit, in particular, has been a long term failure. 5-0 was no way on the cards, but a comprehensive thrashing was, IMO.

Fair enough, the batting has been crap for a while, so that wasn't inexplicable, although the meekness was surprising. The bowling, otoh, and losing their way after every counterattack by Haddin/Smith. Guess they can be excused one bad series. Still expected England to take this series, 2-1 or more...  maybe I was underrating an Australian team at home, but their top order's struggles suggest that they still aren't that great, certainly not 5-0, maybe not even convincing series winners.

And how much of the limp surrender was mental? A lot of it, imo. Good time not to be in English cricket...

It was apparently what we've bred though, isn't it? 'Mentally tough cricketers'. They couldn't have been more feeble if they tried. They were like a bunch of club cricketers, who'd never faced a half decent bowler before. Something has got to give. It had to give a year or more ago, when we fumbled around - now it's a definite. They cannot go on like this.

It can be telegraphed what will happen: heads will roll only AFTER India tank the shit out of us. Another wasted 8 months not doing something we should've done before.