England's ODI future...

*gulp* this isn't going to be pretty, but here we go:

Openers
Jason Roy - he's like Brendan McCullum. If Bren Mac was less good.
Alex Hales - he's like a tall Brendan McCullum. If Bren Mac was tall and less good.

So they're your basic death-or-glory opening pair. They could win you a game in 20 overs or you could be two wickets down in two. But hey, no guts no glory.

Middle order
Ben Stokes - he can bash but also bat, if you treat him like a batsman who bowls a bit. Invest in him, says I.
James Vince - classically correct batsman who still scores at a good rate. Captaincy material. Bowls some filth.
James Taylor - tenacious, yappy terrier who can hit as well as nurdle.
Moeen Ali - plays all the shots. Doesn't have the technique to open against international bowlers, but six suits him. Plus ten overs of o/s.

A little bit of everything there. You could probably rotate in Joe Root for one of the Jameses, if that's your thing, but his gormless baby face has been pissing me right off lately.

Keeper
Jos Buttler - he's been exposed as a very one-dimensional slogger lately, but there's talent to work with.

Sam Billings could be an alternative.

All-rounder
Adil Rashid - he fields, he bats, he's a middle overs "mystery spinner". He'll mostly be shit, of course, but what if he isn't?

An actual wicket threat once the new ball period has passed is essential. And if Rashid doesn't come off, he still brings a couple of other strong disciplines to the party and you can stick with Moeen's safe and steady off-breaks for your spin.

Bowlers
.....
.....
.....

Well, I'm drawing a blank here. I've seen Stuart Meaker and Lewis Gregory bowl some excellent (and not so excellent) death overs in domestic cricket (fast yorkers), but Meaker's had fitness issues for a year now and is Gregory really international-standard?

I'm struggling. Is Tim Bresnan still playing? Jesus wept - there's no hope. Abandon thread.

Just play 11 batsmen. If they can score 400 then they might have a chance to defend it...

From the other thread - most important thing is an independent (of the Test setup) coach and selection panel.

Not going to happen, though. The ECB wanted to unify all the codes of the game under one supremo when they hired Peter Moores and gave Gilo the old heave ho.

I don't know why, exactly. Knowing Giles Clarke, it was probably because that was the cheapest option. They have still got to pay Andy Flower's salary, remember, for... whatever it is he does now.

Doesn't Joe Root have a future?

eowyn wrote:Doesn't Joe Root have a future?

Do they still make Milky Bars?

Of course they do. But I'm not sure "The Milky Bars are on me" sounds quite right spoken in a Yorkshire accent by a 6 foot male these days...

I think we need to be careful of looking at it the wrong way. A lot of the players currently available to England, or deemed to be experienced enough to be selected, are simply not good enough. Hence, there is no point looking at the current generation, other than in terms of the players who already are or who might yet become good enough. That means that only players like Moeen Ali, Joe Root, Gary Ballance, James Taylor, Chris Woakes and Alex Hales are worth keeping from among the current squad. Thereafter, one must look at the England Lions team, who have to their credit just won a one-day series in South Africa, for players who will fill in the rest of the positions. With that in mind, you look at building a group of players to choose from for the next World Cup, and stick as close to it as possible, only allowing players who display excellence domestically to be added to this group:

Batsmen:

Joe Root - has the best idea of how to build an innings of the current pretenders
James Taylor - potentially a good replacement for Trott at 3
James Vince - had a good series in South Africa for the Lions, both four- and one-day
Jason Roy - had a good one-day series for the Lions, has ability to scare attacks
Alex Hales - has technical issues but is one of the better hitters available to us
Alex Lees - decent season in the one-day cup last year, young player who could make it
Gary Ballance - has looked a bit meh, but averages over 50 domestically

All-rounders:

Ben Stokes - still think he's a fantastic talent with bat and ball
Moeen Ali - pretty similar, except he bowls mediocre spin, a natural number 6 in ODIs
Adil Rashid - not sure about him at all, but you never know, worth a mention

Keepers:

Jos Buttler - can be a bit crap at times but he's the best we've got and is a dynamic late-hitter
Sam Billings - early days, but an aggressive keeper-batsman like Buttler

Bowlers:

... yeah, about that ...

The thing is, KP's good with young players (Jimmy Taylor perhaps excluded, but he was maybe too closely associated with the Twat Pack). Would be an ideal leader for a side in transition (I know, we've been in transition for 23 years...) but Downton Shabby slammed the door on that one.

Funnily enough, the England Lions team has been consistently making scores of 350+ against Sri Lanka A and South Africa A this last year or so. There IS the talent to do it out there. It's just that the England environment is so stifling, so talent-sucking, that it seems impossible for these guys to play their natural games.

Ideally you'd look to try-

Roy
Hales
Vince
Root(c)
Stokes/Taylor
Moeen
Buttler/Billings+
Gregory
C.Overton
Rashid
Jordan/Footit

How about this bullshit from Gideon Haigh:

England have allowed themselves to be seduced by the idea that 320 is a par score in modern ODI cricket. They have allowed themselves to be pulled away from their strengths - percentage cricket - and dragged into a slugging match with opposition that can out-punch them.

Well 320 is a par score these days, and if you don't embrace that philosophy there's no farking point turning up... it's just that it took three and a half years for England to realise that after the last World Cup, and so the late change in approach is rather like a defensively minded football team suddenly changing to an all out attack formation and expecting to win straight away.

I think it was George Dobell, not Gideon Haigh, that said that.

Just pick the best 11 players, and tell them to play THEIR way. Don't burden them with team instructions. It would be nice if a few of the players were a little bit more street-wise and able to read the situation themselves out in the middle.

You need Stokes, Woakes, Foakes, and a few otherr blokes. Maybe a couple of Hollioakes?

It's just a staggering deterioration.

Henry wrote:I think it was George Dobell, not Gideon Haigh, that said that.

Just pick the best 11 players, and tell them to play THEIR way. Don't burden them with team instructions. It would be nice if a few of the players were a little bit more street-wise and able to read the situation themselves out in the middle.

Yea, got the wrong name... first letter was there anyway. Some cricket journalist, maybe Australian, maybe not, who knows...

Surprised nobody has yet brought up the fact that we actually stopped playing 50 over cricket at domestic level in England a few years back. And expected to still be able to take on the world at it. Arrogance and cluelessness... the ECB excels at it. No wonder the Eurozone is in crisis... oh, they're not the same? Are we sure about that?

Needs more Irish and s africans heard Levi playing for northants and ingram for glamorgan,maybe paul stirling from ireland and george dockerill.

As for bowlers: Jamie Overton, Mark Wood and David Willey spring to mind. Overton still hasn't properly recovered from that Weakening and Knackering Strengthening and Conditioning Programme he went on over a year ago, but he is talented. And the same can be said for Willey.

Not sure about Craig Overton, he's a bit too Woakes-lite for me.

As for potential keepers..........well there's always Jonny Bairstow!

It's ok, I didn't actually take my coat off.

Basil wrote:As for bowlers: Jamie Overton, Mark Wood and David Willey spring to mind. Overton still hasn't properly recovered from that Weakening and Knackering Strengthening and Conditioning Programme he went on over a year ago, but he is talented. And the same can be said for Willey.

Not sure about Craig Overton, he's a bit too Woakes-lite for me.

As for potential keepers..........well there's always Jonny Bairstow!

It's ok, I didn't actually take my coat off.

Craig is coming along nicely (probably because he hasn't constantly been around the England setup. Wait until England's coaches get hold gf him and tell him all the things he's doing wrong) His pace is up to around 85-86 mph these days. Can smack it miles with the bat as well. He's taller than Woakes, so gets more bounce. Jamie has struggled with injury as mentioned. When fully fit he's probably the quickest bowler in England. He can also hit a long ball with the bat.

David Willey- Hasn't he become a 78mph dobber? A couple of years ago he was around 83-84 mph, but then got injured, no?

There's also Tymal Mills- Remember him? I assume he went to the Performance Centre, and came back with a muddled, confused mind, and bowled 10mph slower after the onslaught of advice and technical adjustments. Mark Footit would be a good option for a left armer. He's been around for over 10 years now, yet is still only 29. Decent pace (around 86-87mph) and has learn't how to actually BOWL by playing relatively injury free in County cricket for a couple of seasons now, and learning how to take wickets. He might be ripe for picking.

Of course there's the option to effectively admit defeat and just use the ODI team as a try-out vehicle for potential Test players, accepting we won't win many games away from home or contend for World Cups.

beamer wrote:Of course there's the option to effectively admit defeat and just use the ODI team as a try-out vehicle for potential Test players, accepting we won't win many games away from home or contend for World Cups.

I remember them basically admitting that around 2004-05- That they were using the ODI side as an audition for the test team, and it pretty much led to our best ODI side in years for a brief period.

Traditionally we play our best ODI cricket in the year AFTER another World Cup disaster.

In a way it would make sense, keep our best players fresh, don't bother with JAMODI-only tours at all. But I suppose they still want to sell tickets for home ODIs and need some of the "names" to show up. If that no longer happened they'd just end up throwing in an eighth Test every summer.

I think you'll find that England will treat ODIs as almost an irrelevance for the next 18 months or so (like that's different!) with the grotesquely crowded test itinerary they've allowed themselves. I think we might find some fairly unheralded players getting a go.

Are there even many scheduled over the next year or so? 17 Tests in 9 months isn't it, not much room for anything else...

Good. F*ck ODIs. It's just too frustrating watching England play them. Not that the tests will go much better. Cook remains a dud captain, even if he's able to recover his batting form. I can see a different coach and test captain by the end of the English Summer, if not before then.

Actually there are 21 ODIs (and 5 T20Is) scheduled for that period as well according to the ECB!

A real risk of contagion to the Test side from this anyway I think, even with a lot of different players involved.

England's ODI future...

.... there isn't one.

Not with the current set-up; not when their belief that 250 is still a good score to defend; not when the batsmen aren't ODI specialists; not when the bowlers rate themselves highly but in reality are crap; not whilst the present incumbents Moores, Saker and Fairbrace continue in their posts; not whilst Clarke still sways power at the ECB.

Solution: start from scratch. Pick a team that gamble with a robust captain.

Basically - follow the Kiwis example. It is exemplary.