Afghanistan fixed

So the Taliban have flexed their muscles and shown they have the ability to strike right at the heart of the government.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-33221051

Basically saying, if we can hit you at your most well defended point we can get you anywhere.

Tony and George must be ever so proud of their achievements there and in Iraq.

More Bush senior's (and his predecessor's) fault, to be fair.

It's a long history of disaster for sure.

But the interventionist zeal of Jnr and his cronies, backed up a serious lack of a plan for what to do post-victory must carry a big burden for the current mess.

I recall that at some stage post-invasion (or liberation if you prefer that term) the Taliban were willing to negotiate with the US and looking to give up Al-Qaeda and moderate somewhat their ideology. Perhaps if that opportunity had been seized upon we could have avoided years of bloodshed and destruction over there.

Taliban are history (or so the ever so revered Middle Eastern peace maker Our Tone tells us).

ISIS (ISIL, IS, PISS...) are the new Taliban.....
with assistance from Muslim families from Bradford, High Wycombe,
Luton and all points East and North of London.

This may appear to be a pop at you, L No2, but it's not meant as such.

You're absolutely correct, of course - but its not like anyone with brains couldn't see it coming though is it ?

Almost exactly a year ago (12th June to be exact) on a thread titled "More upheaval in Iraq" I wrote this ....

My view is that at a guess between 70% and 90% of ordinary Iraqui citizens aged 30 or over preferred living under the rule of a certain Mr S Hussain, for all his faults (and there were plenty), than the chaos and destruction they see today.

Lets be honest, if it weren't for our spurious and illegal war in 2003, most of them would have still have parents, children and siblings still alive. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 - (the pretext for action), was no threat to us (contrary to Blairs WMD lies) - and was no friend of Al Quaeda. With hindsight, he could have been one of our strongest allies against the extremists we see today.

Of course, Iraq was just one of many examples of American/British/EU "seagull foreign policy" - namely fly in, shit all over the place, then fly out leaving the local populace to deal with the aftermath .........

I'm going to take this chance to make a prediction. We - the West - are withdrawing our troops from Afghanistan by the end of this year, by which time a new president will have power.  "Mission accomplished" was, IIRC, the expression used at the dog-end of last year. What exactly the mission was, I don't know (and neither does anyone else for that matter.)

I reckon that by the end of next year, the place will be riven once more by internecine tribal warfare, girls will not be attending school, the president will not be in office, and all those deaths (of our soldiers) will count for nought. In short - Afghanistan will revert to being a backward failed state once more.

I'm deeply, deeply saddened to see now that my predictions look as though they are coming true. Lord only knows what else is going on in Afghanistan and not getting reported.

On the subject of things not widely reported - you know what grinds my gears most of all ? It's the fact that whilst there's a nasty little war still going on in eastern Ukraine, the USA and UK governments are essentially waving their cocks at Vlad the destroyer (who is not helping would-be jihadis scuttle back and forth almost at will) - whilst at the same time sucking that of Recep Tayyip Erdogan (who, although supposedly a NATO ally, is doing everything in his power to assist ISIS against the Syrian government short of actually recruiting for them).

Our bone-headed leaders will not stand on their pride and hubris, and bring on-side the two countries that are capable of dealing with ISIS ...... namely Syria itself, and Iran.

Lindsay no.2 wrote:It's a long history of disaster for sure.

But the interventionist zeal of Jnr and his cronies, backed up a serious lack of a plan for what to do post-victory must carry a big burden for the current mess.

I recall that at some stage post-invasion (or liberation if you prefer that term) the Taliban were willing to negotiate with the US and looking to give up Al-Qaeda and moderate somewhat their ideology. Perhaps if that opportunity had been seized upon we could have avoided years of bloodshed and destruction over there.

Not talking to the so called moderates is one of the few good decisions made among the shambles imo. Engaging with the Tigers in Lanka and the moderate negotiator, Balasingham, potentially put peace back by a couple of decades. Also, engaging with the moderates has shown to be rather fruitless with the Hurriyat conference. And that is disregarding the damage it could've done to the strength of an already questionable govt (Karzai's re-election was a funny one).

ETA: As Growls mentioned in his post, not at all a pop at you. Just my opinion, which usually means it's utterly shit.

I thought this was going to be a thread about match-fixing involving the Afghan cricket team...

Growler wrote:This may appear to be a pop at you, L No2, but it's not meant as such.

You're absolutely correct, of course - but its not like anyone with brains couldn't see it coming though is it ?

Almost exactly a year ago (12th June to be exact) on a thread titled "More upheaval in Iraq" I wrote this ....

My view is that at a guess between 70% and 90% of ordinary Iraqui citizens aged 30 or over preferred living under the rule of a certain Mr S Hussain, for all his faults (and there were plenty), than the chaos and destruction they see today.

Lets be honest, if it weren't for our spurious and illegal war in 2003, most of them would have still have parents, children and siblings still alive. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 - (the pretext for action), was no threat to us (contrary to Blairs WMD lies) - and was no friend of Al Quaeda. With hindsight, he could have been one of our strongest allies against the extremists we see today.

Of course, Iraq was just one of many examples of American/British/EU "seagull foreign policy" - namely fly in, shit all over the place, then fly out leaving the local populace to deal with the aftermath .........

I'm going to take this chance to make a prediction. We - the West - are withdrawing our troops from Afghanistan by the end of this year, by which time a new president will have power.  "Mission accomplished" was, IIRC, the expression used at the dog-end of last year. What exactly the mission was, I don't know (and neither does anyone else for that matter.)

I reckon that by the end of next year, the place will be riven once more by internecine tribal warfare, girls will not be attending school, the president will not be in office, and all those deaths (of our soldiers) will count for nought. In short - Afghanistan will revert to being a backward failed state once more.

I'm deeply, deeply saddened to see now that my predictions look as though they are coming true. Lord only knows what else is going on in Afghanistan and not getting reported.

On the subject of things not widely reported - you know what grinds my gears most of all ? It's the fact that whilst there's a nasty little war still going on in eastern Ukraine, the USA and UK governments are essentially waving their cocks at Vlad the destroyer (who is not helping would-be jihadis scuttle back and forth almost at will) - whilst at the same time sucking that of Recep Tayyip Erdogan (who, although supposedly a NATO ally, is doing everything in his power to assist ISIS against the Syrian government short of actually recruiting for them).

Our bone-headed leaders will not stand on their pride and hubris, and bring on-side the two countries that are capable of dealing with ISIS ...... namely Syria itself, and Iran.

Cheers Growler - didn't take it as a pop. In fact, if I'd known you had already mapped it out it would have saved me getting all aerated about it ;-)

tricycle wrote:

Lindsay no.2 wrote:It's a long history of disaster for sure.

But the interventionist zeal of Jnr and his cronies, backed up a serious lack of a plan for what to do post-victory must carry a big burden for the current mess.

I recall that at some stage post-invasion (or liberation if you prefer that term) the Taliban were willing to negotiate with the US and looking to give up Al-Qaeda and moderate somewhat their ideology. Perhaps if that opportunity had been seized upon we could have avoided years of bloodshed and destruction over there.

Not talking to the so called moderates is one of the few good decisions made among the shambles imo. Engaging with the Tigers in Lanka and the moderate negotiator, Balasingham, potentially put peace back by a couple of decades. Also, engaging with the moderates has shown to be rather fruitless with the Hurriyat conference. And that is disregarding the damage it could've done to the strength of an already questionable govt (Karzai's re-election was a funny one).

ETA: As Growls mentioned in his post, not at all a pop at you. Just my opinion, which usually means it's utterly shit.

I think that at the time of potential discussions the US were in the drivers seat and could have negotiated from a serious position of strength. That said I'm not suggesting that the Taliban would suddenly have become all moderate and reasonable and trustworthy. But could it have led to a worse position than the country is in now? That would've taken some doing.

beamer wrote:I thought this was going to be a thread about match-fixing involving the Afghan cricket team...

What do you think this is - a forum about cricket? Honestly.

Also, on the match-fixing point, Afghanis generally travel to Pakistain; it's not so much the other way around.

lardbucket wrote:Also, on the match-fixing point, Afghanis generally travel to Pakistain; it's not so much the other way around.

Hehehe.

On the main points. Didn't the Taliban or WTF was the dominant force pre-invasion have a chance to give AQ and it's leaders up, but were in hock to them (in their traditional values set) for knocking off some leadership rivals?

Their cricket is working well.... About to win the series against the Zimbos. Zimbabwe really plummeting.