Re: Ashes 2017-2018 countdown

by Lindsay no.2 Sun 10 Sep 2017, 17:24

lardbucket wrote:It makes more sense for this to be on this thread:

some silly old blurter that put this on the WI - England thread wrote:

Re Growls' and Beamer's comments about the forthcoming Ashes tour, I think it will be close.

Our attack is a bit stronger but your mob bat deeper with the all rounders you will select.

Re Jimmeh, aside from the jokes about the menu demands and his hubris, he struggled for penetration on our flat decks last time. His decline in pace was no doubt a factor and I doubt that has improved in the intervening years.

Last time here Piggsy Stokes announced himself as a serious competitive player. I have no doubt he will have a great tour. Malfoy was serviceable last time and I expect he will be competitive again. Root will have a grand tour.

The old Chef will have nightmares about coming back here. I hope for his sake and that of his great record that he is not embarrassed.

The last Ashes tour here saw the retirements (forced or otherwise) of KP, the admirable Trott, the odious Prior and the even more odious Chinhead (forced to retire because he refused to carry the drinks out for Monty).

Pomgolian tours here generally unearth one or two players who rise to the occasion. Last time it was Piggsy Stokes. This time it could be Woakes, Hameed and (yes) Ballance. They are tough and skilled and should prosper here.

Oz have plenty of problems to resolve.

Warner, the gcspoc, remains a big headed ftb. The odd synapse he gets in his noggin tells him he will dominate on our characterless tracks. He usually does but no-one will be surprised if he bombs out.

Renshaw, the kid from Qld is a gutsy promising opener. He should do well but a couple of failures will see him under pressure from Ch Nein, the NSW commentariat, the bnlg and Koala Jnr for him to be replaced by some random Spiv or WA player.

We have no number 3. Smith should probably play there. Uber Koala may be given a Test or two, provided he scores some runs in the Shield.

Smith. Great bat/vin ordinaire captain.

Handscomb. Sneaky Pete averages over 50 but will remain under pressure.

We have no number 6. The NSP are desperate for an all rounder. We have none. Maxwell is the incumbent and did ok in India but the Skipper won't bowl him. WA will scream for Donkey Cartwight or even worse M Marsh. Kjnr and NSW will argue for some ransom Spiv. The position should go to Head.

Keeper/number 7. Wade will be sacked. Did not score enough runs v the Bangles. There are a number of good young keepers playing in the Shield. They will be by-passed for Neville who is an ok keeper but a crap bat.

Cummins/Pattinson, Starc, Lyon and Hazlewood will comprise the attack.

Usually you can tell who will be in the Oz team by watching out for players appearing in early season KFC ads. The upshot of the contract dispute is that the KFC cast may no longer be the best guide.

It is all very confusing.

I don't think Nevill is anywhere near as crappy as you have suggested; IMHO, he's a far better Test bat than Wade. The inexperienced but very promising Alex Carey may yet be promoted but I suspect Nevill, Wade, or (yes it's a long shot, but even the Cricinfo pollsters think it's not ridiculous) Tim Paine could be chosen above him for the first Test. I'd be happy with either Nevill or Paine, or even Carey, but FFS not Wade. Whiteman is of course recovering from injury and out of the picture. Runs in the first 3 rounds of the Shield will probably decide the keeping position.

If Ballance gets on the plane, let alone a game then to borrow a phrase from beamer, winter has not only come but it's going to be a total bitch.

I'd like Root to have a stormer. And God knows we need him to do so. But if Starc plays I think he's going to be roughed up and will come unstuck. And if he unravels then the pressure on Stokes and co might just be too much to cope with. Even if he does ride out the roughstuff he's still seemingly unable to go big on a regular basis. Lots of 60s/70s/80s then gets out. Good for the average but not enough match defining innings - when you comapre him to Smith, Kohli, Williamson etc.

by Lindsay no.2 Sun 10 Sep 2017, 17:34

Growler wrote:JA will still be the key IMHO. As I said elsewhere, his 2013/14 return of 14 wickets @ 43 was indeed very poor. On the other hand, his previous tour in 2010/11 he was leading bowler by a distance with 24 @ 26 whilst making Ponting, Clarke and Hussey (all world-class batsmen) look like leaden-footed tailenders more than once.

True, with different conditions and ball, he clearly won't average 14, as he has this summer for his 39 wickets - but if he carries on the form he's in (and doesn't have so many regulation nicks fumbled in the slips) - he'll be a handful for sure.

Re Jimmy - would love for him to repeat his 2011 outing. However, I think the batting by Aus then was dreadful and the team was in a total mess. Ponting was shot by then - a mere shadow of his former self. Watson was Watson. Katich was opening and then replaced by Hughes, who was nowhere up to the level required. Clarke was in a slump (was his back screwed during that series or was it just his head, as he wanted to be skipper but wasn't deemed ready). Smith was brought in and was about as far from the player he is today as is humanly possible. Basically my recall was you were a two man batting line-up Hussey and Haddin.

This time around I think the batting is likely to be a bit less keystone cops.

by skully Sun 10 Sep 2017, 23:34

Decent analysis, L2.

I think Aus's FTBs will rack up some decent scores but will also have a few catastrophic collapses. Jimmeh may be at the heart of those debacles.

I think the series will get down to the side with the least brittle top 7. My money's on England.

by skully Mon 11 Sep 2017, 23:29

TGM noms his Ashes XIs

TGM says:

"Warne's Australia Ashes XI: Matt Renshaw, David Warner, Usman Khawaja, Steve Smith (c), Peter Handscomb, Glenn Maxwell, Matthew Wade (wk), Mitchell Starc, Pat Cummins, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazlewood. James Pattinson 12th man.

Warne's England Ashes XI: Mark Stoneman, Alastair Cook, Joe Root (c), Alex Hales, Ben Stokes, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Moeen Ali, Chris Woakes, Stuart Broad, Mason Crane, James Anderson."

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NoShow is the new Puddle - consistently picked but consistently useless. Ooze's FTBism may come to the fore. I'd flick Weed for Nifty.

by horace Tue 12 Sep 2017, 02:48

skully wrote:TGM noms his Ashes XIs

TGM says:

"Warne's Australia Ashes XI: Matt Renshaw, David Warner, Usman Khawaja, Steve Smith (c), Peter Handscomb, Glenn Maxwell, Matthew Wade (wk), Mitchell Starc, Pat Cummins, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazlewood. James Pattinson 12th man.

Warne's England Ashes XI: Mark Stoneman, Alastair Cook, Joe Root (c), Alex Hales, Ben Stokes, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Moeen Ali, Chris Woakes, Stuart Broad, Mason Crane, James Anderson."

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NoShow is the new Puddle - consistently picked but consistently useless. Ooze's FTBism may come to the fore. I'd flick Weed for Nifty.

No Show might be vin ordinaire but there is no comparison with Steak Knives, who is the worst No6 to have played Test cricket (20 Tests+). At least NoShow has scored one ton.

Even Reeks FFS can only aspire to the crapulence of Steak Knives, tho prolly is only marginally worse than NoShow. Donkey has done nothing to inspire confidence.

Personally I'd support Head getting the gig.

Failing that and if the bnlg insists, it would be better to gift a Test or two to the Stain than Donkey, No Show or Reeks FFS.

by horace Tue 12 Sep 2017, 02:51

Uber Koala needs time in the middle and would have score some decent runs in the Shield to come under consideration.

Nifty is less than useful. If Wade is axed, Carey or Harps (if fit) should get the gig.

by PeterCS Tue 12 Sep 2017, 03:02

skully wrote:Decent analysis, L2.

I think Aus's FTBs will rack up some decent scores but will also have a few catastrophic collapses. Jimmeh may be at the heart of those debacles.

I think the series will get down to the side with the least brittle top 7. My money's on England.

Re: JA (only - I'm off to bed in a mo):

I think, for him to be totally in charge, he needs some swing. Oz rarely provides such heavy, cloudy conditions as he prospers in. And he's better with the Dukes.

He has added guile to his unflinching effort, and if the batting is weak, he can always have a measure of success in conditions that don't favour him.

But in Australia, I'd almost use him as first change. (Ain't going to happen.) That of course presupposes England had an alternative joint-spearhead with Broad. With pace and bounce. Not at all certain who that would be. Woakes, Roland-Jones, Finn, Ball ... I don't need to run through their pros and - the point here - cons.

Plunkett .... will probably not even go.

Well, possibly for the LO side.

by PeterCS Tue 12 Sep 2017, 03:04

skully wrote:Decent analysis, L2.

I think Aus's FTBs will rack up some decent scores but will also have a few catastrophic collapses. Jimmeh may be at the heart of those debacles.

I think the series will get down to the side with the least brittle top 7. My money's on England.

You should be working in the PR dept of a major sports network, Skulls. You already make it sound like the most dramatic, nailbiting series ever (even if the batting's a heap of crap, but don't tell the punters that ffs...).

by skully Tue 12 Sep 2017, 03:11

I hope it is a nail-biter, Peter. We need more series like 2005 to get the juices flowing. Although I'd happily accept 4 or 5-0 to Aus. Cool

by horace Tue 12 Sep 2017, 04:38

Agree with Skully. It would be nice to have 2005, with a different result. However there are too many ho hum players in both sides.

I think a similar result to last time in Oz would be fine. In return for you guys getting the menus you want we'd accept another 5-0.

by Bradman Tue 12 Sep 2017, 05:09

This at this stage would be a pretty open series mainly due to the hot and cold nature of some of the English matchwinners, our china doll bowling attack and the ability of our selectors to completely fark things up.

And please, please, please someone mark ten cent brain's card "never to be appointed to the NSP".

by horace Tue 12 Sep 2017, 05:13

Bradman wrote:This at this stage would be a pretty open series mainly due to the hot and cold nature of some of the English matchwinners, our china doll bowling attack and the ability of our selectors to completely fark things up.

And please, please, please someone mark ten cent brain's card "never to be appointed to the NSP".

Which one? Taylor, one of Kjnr's nags, bnlg?

by Bradman Tue 12 Sep 2017, 05:22

Million dollar arm, ten cent brain. Warnie. Going on his selection above and his tendencies to promote buddies all over the shop. Maxwell? And that's just for starters.

by horace Tue 12 Sep 2017, 05:32

Oh, that one.

Nah he's just supporting the incumbents.

by skully Tue 12 Sep 2017, 07:44

Warnie will never be a selector. It requires one to do homework.

by taipan Tue 12 Sep 2017, 07:54

skully wrote:Warnie will never be a selector. It requires one to do homework.

Aussies don't do homework. Ask Mickey Arthur

by lardbucket Tue 12 Sep 2017, 09:04

horace wrote:Uber Koala needs time in the middle and would have score some decent runs in the Shield to come under consideration.

Nifty is less than useful. If Wade is axed, Carey or Harps (if fit) should get the gig.

Harper isn't even close. Six first class games, averaging 20, and still learning his main craft (keeping). He's behind Nevill, Carey, Wade, Paine, Whiteman, and perhaps Inglis and Peirson. If Ryan Carters hadn't just retired, he'd be ahead of him as well.

by horace Tue 12 Sep 2017, 09:57

Nevil, Wade and Paine are toast.

Time for youth. Lets see how he goes in the Shield.

by skully Tue 12 Sep 2017, 10:48

Fark orf with yer youf. This is the Ashes, man. THE ASHES!!

Pick the best keeper/batsman. Last Shield season:

Nifty (9 games) - 625 @ 56.81
Weed (3 games) - 113 @ 28.25 + 8 Tests - 246 @ 24.60 (utter tripe)
Paine (3 games) - 130 @ 26.00
Whiteman (5 games) - 230 @ 25.55
Carey (11 games) - 594 @ 33.00
Pierson (3 games) - 209 @ 41.80

To me Nifty is the standout. And I'm sure he would've learned a lot from his 1st stint in Test cricket.

by PeterCS Tue 12 Sep 2017, 14:45

Whiteman it is, then.

by lardbucket Tue 12 Sep 2017, 21:26

Still injured.

by horace Tue 12 Sep 2017, 21:28

Skully off his meds again?

They are not solely batsmen.

There are three matches before T1. Form there has greater currency.

Nifty's lack of fight did not impress Boof or Seasick Steve and doubt he will be under consideration while SS is the skipper and Boof is coach. Wade is an average keeper. Paine was selected at one stage because he was in kfc ads and is prolly the 5th best keeper in Tas.

Lardy's long term cheerleading for Paine is akin to Kjnr playing favourites.

These three should not be in contention and Haddit should not be fielding coach.

by lardbucket Tue 12 Sep 2017, 21:37

What?

He's probably the best or second best pure keeper, his Test career was stymied by a very badly broken finger. End of story. He has struggled to regain his previous batting form but finally seems to have done so.

To compare his batting or keeping unfavourably with Wade or the embryonic Harper (who may yet be good, but it's way too soon to know) is just another example of parochial bitterness twisting your reality, or tedious trolling. Very disappointing.

Whitman!s injured, so he's out of calculation. Nevill, Carey, and Paine all have skills and are in contention. Paine's age is against him but he is still younger than Haddin when his career started in earnest, and he's a far better keeper than Haddin ever was, so why not accept that he's in contention?

Wade is an obnoxious tool who can't keep and whose T20 batting skills don't translate into Test runs, so I hope he's not retained just because he's the incumbent.

by skully Tue 12 Sep 2017, 22:05

Checkmate, h.

by horace Wed 13 Sep 2017, 00:47

Always avoided checked shirts.

Lets see Shield form. I have no faith in Nifty, Paine or Wade. Will be interesting to see who dons the gloves for Tas.

Whether it is Harper or some other youngster, I'd hope the NSP look at the success they enjoyed with the Wrench.

Before his terrible injury, Harps was showing a lot of promise.

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