What do England need to do to regain the Ashes?

We've still got a massive series in the West Indies to come first, plus a couple of Tests in India to try out new players and get a stronger and more settled team.

But Kevin Pietersen is in bullish mood:

"If we play like we played this week, we'll beat Australia," declared Kevin Pietersen, only minutes after becoming the fourth man in the last 30 years to win his first Test as England captain. If that seemed a tad of an over-reaction to a comfortable but unspectacular dead-rubber triumph, then it was merely an extension of the up-and-at-'em attitude that has revived English spirits at the end of a disappointing series. Pietersen has never stood on ceremony at any stage of his career, and this moment of victory was not likely to change that pattern one iota.

"This is a very exciting stage, but a starting stage," he said. "The key is to turn up to every single Test match like we turned up to this one. With the structures and the players we've got, the type of attack we've had in this game, the way we've gone about the game and the way we've been up for it every single day, and the emotions that the guys have come out with, it's not far away from a perfect start. It's the way we want to play our cricket in the future."

The rest of the article.

You can certainly forgive him talking a bit of bullish.

I think he's a bit silly to even be thinking about Australia.

Good that someone thinks England can beat us though, hopefully they will get better before the Ashes. It's no fun kicking a team when they are on the ground.

Where I think England have to improve...

1) The opening partnership. Andrew Strauss has been struggling for a while now, and I think we need to give someone else a chance to cement their place in the team before next summer. An ideal foil for Alastair Cook would be an aggressive right handed batsman, who can strike a few boundaries to dent the new ball a la Tres. No outstanding candidate, maybe time to give Robert Key another chance to see if he can cut it at Test level. If not a rejuvenated Michael Vaughan?

2) The pivotal number 3 position. As it stands Australia will have Ricky Ponting at number 3. And we will have *ahem* Ian Bell. Either Bell has got to improve so much he becomes another player entirely (more mentally than technically) or we have got to be proactive and consider the alternatives. There aren't many - but surely we need to give Owais Shah at least a chance, a run of games over the Winter rather than die wondering.

3) Wicket Keeper. Needs to play all Winter - enough chopping and changing. James Foster, good keeper, sound defensive technique - give him the Winter as established number 1.

4) Lengths! When are we going to learn that you have to bowl full of a length to take wickets? The likes of Braod, Harmison and Flintoff all have the pace to push the batsman onto the back foot, but rarely have the brains to recognise that its the fuller length that usually gets the wickets. Simon Jones, Ryan Sidebottom and latterly James Anderson have all been much more potent because they commit the batsman into a shot rather than hammer away in a back of a length comfort zone.

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But its not all bad news! With Cook, Pietersen, Collingwood, Flintoff, Anderson, Sidebottom & Panesar I think we have the raw materials to build another strong side, to match the one we had in 2005.

Gary 111 wrote:
But its not all bad news! With Cook, Pietersen, Collingwood, Flintoff, Anderson, Sidebottom & Panesar I think we have the raw materials to build another strong side, to match the one we had in 2005.

But, Gary, they're the same lads you came to Oz with in 06/07 . . . you really need them to fire and the remaining players to stand up as well . . .


. . . not that that might not happen, but . . .

Pietersen and Collingwood excelled, Flintoff had plenty of different troubles, Anderson is a different bowler entirely, Monty didn't do bad - he just got Gilchristed, Sibo didn't go.

Monty got Fredded in Australia ...

Brass Monkey wrote:Pietersen and Collingwood excelled, Flintoff had plenty of different troubles, Anderson is a different bowler entirely, Monty didn't do bad - he just got Gilchristed, Sibo didn't go.

Ooooh, BM's getting all woody over Jimmikins of a sudden . . . one bad test his name will be mud again, no doubt . . .

embee wrote:Monty got Fredded in Australia ...

I know what you're saying but really, it was just that mad two hours from Gilchrist and Symonds. His bowling average went from about 30 to 37 in that time.

tac wrote:
Ooooh, BM's getting all woody over Jimmikins of a sudden . . . one bad test his name will be mud again, no doubt . . .

Nope. I rinsed him quite a bit through the NZ tour and their return here. But then, I just saw his 'manful' bowling all the way through the SA series without any luck at all and the fact he can now keep control of the ball whilst swinging it both ways. Quite an asset.

For me, he's now number 1 pick in the bowling stakes.

Brass Monkey wrote:

tac wrote:
Ooooh, BM's getting all woody over Jimmikins of a sudden . . . one bad test his name will be mud again, no doubt . . .

Nope. I rinsed him quite a bit through the NZ tour and their return here. But then, I just saw his 'manful' bowling all the way through the SA series without any luck at all and the fact he can now keep control of the ball whilst swinging it both ways. Quite an asset.

Agree he bowled well against the Saffies, but there are still doubts as to whether he's turned a corner or just momentarily forgotten how crap he usually is . . .

tac wrote:
Agree he bowled well against the Saffies, but there are still doubts as to whether he's turned a corner or just momentarily forgotten how crap he usually is . . .

Definitely and there's still a big question mark if he could do well on the sub-continent - though that won't matter for speculation over the home series.

Brass Monkey wrote:

tac wrote:
Agree he bowled well against the Saffies, but there are still doubts as to whether he's turned a corner or just momentarily forgotten how crap he usually is . . .

Definitely and there's still a big question mark if he could do well on the sub-continent - though that won't matter for speculation over the home series.

So the question of whether he's "a completely different bowler" is yet to be answered, me thinks.

tac wrote:
So the question of whether he's "a completely different bowler" is yet to be answered, me thinks.

Sort of. He's no half-volley merchant who'd recently been injured, with no stamina and no form. In that regard, he is a completely different bowler to Ashes 06/07 Jimmikins. Definitely. His worst form hasn't been as bad as back then.

Brass Monkey wrote:

tac wrote:
So the question of whether he's "a completely different bowler" is yet to be answered, me thinks.

Sort of. He's no half-volley merchant who'd recently been injured, with no stamina and no form. In that regard, he is a completely different bowler to Ashes 06/07 Jimmikins. Definitely. His worst form hasn't been as bad as back then.

And the Duke ball gives him an edge as well, I guess. Be interesting if Jones can come back and you have Flintoff, Harmy, Broad, Jones, SiBo and Jimmikins to pick from. Not to mention Hoggy.

"This is a very exciting stage, but a starting stage," he said. "The key is to turn up to every single Test match like we turned up to this one. With the structures and the players we've got, the type of attack we've had in this game, the way we've gone about the game and the way we've been up for it every single day, and the emotions that the guys have come out with, it's not far away from a perfect start. It's the way we want to play our cricket in the future."

Nice and bullish ... presumptive perhaps, but aggresive enough to draw attention.

However, very worrying to read the above paragraph.
It's the kind of drivel that MPV used to spiel with regularity; let's hope that KP hasn't been cloned by Alister Campbell just yet.

Clearly NO changes are envisaged - neither players nor the methods applied to matches - ie., doing it the Mooresussex way. Boring and monotonous.

The ONE positive outcome from the Oval was the bowling attack.
Yes, THEY did well, but only on the back of a fired-up Harmison and Flintoff, a rejuvenated
Anderson (taking his lead from the two big guys). Broad still has miles to go to attain that level of consistency but is an able 2nd change. fear is that if the Aussies pick him as their fall guy, he'll be creamed out of sight. Monty is Monty - very capable.

The fear is KP talking the same squad. Remember, he rates Bell highly, so the England 3 berth will be easy pickings for BLee and Co next year. Ambrose has to go for Foster.

Said it all along (since NZ) - this England side is NOT good enough to take on the Aussies.
Perhaps the bowling (if harnessed and controlled well) - but definitely NOT the batting.
End of.
If KP believes that, then he has been cloned.

If they want to re-shape the team into one that is capapble of holding their own, then changes have to be made ... however, for me, this one sentence from KP spells doom in that regard ...
" With the structures and the players we've got ... "...

Brave new order .....?
Pfffft ... as if.

tac wrote:
And the Duke ball gives him an edge as well, I guess. Be interesting if Jones can come back and you have Flintoff, Harmy, Broad, Jones, SiBo and Jimmikins to pick from. Not to mention Hoggy.

Yeah, agreed. We have the luck of the Duke ball, no doubt. It's perfect for him, a prouder seam and the different lacquer are much more condusive to conventional fast bowling.

Fortunately for us, the SG ball is similar, so at least he'll get something similar in India. Was going to quote his contribution in Mumbai '06 for our victory, but he had a totally different action then.

I can see totally why he'd be shithouse with the Kookaburra.

If they're all in form, I expect that there's only one or two places up for grabs - Broad and Flintoff will be shoe-ins because of their batting. IMO, they may go for SiJo and SiBo because they provide a difference. That'd be a mistake probably, unless the Anderson Cycle gets stuck on uber-gash.

Merlin, it's called 'media coaching' - all players get it nowadays - and whilst one can hope that Pietersen will be a little more candid, he's not a total rebel without a cause - there's clearly a directive that they all adhere to. Fair enough.

....it's called 'media coaching'...

Aye, that's the worry Danny. That's the worry.
The spin machine operating with the usual bullshit sound-bites.

No one expects KP to launch into a rebellious machete wielding carve up of the establishment - but the odd subtle hint or reference to possible changes or alterations
that would ehance the side would have been more than welcome.

His spiel indicates his contentment with the set-up as it is!
Can that be good for cricket here ... or just good for the fat f**ks on central contracts?
Perhaps a suggestive word here and there to get those hangers-on worried for their
positions and visa applications ... I see him as being mischievous enough to do
something like that - not just the boring old sh!te ..."We're happy, we're positive, we can beat the Australians ....

Disappointing mate , that's all ... disappointing!
Aggression devoid of reality ... in other words, who's he kidding?

Merlin wrote:

....it's called 'media coaching'...

Aye, that's the worry Danny. That's the worry.
The spin machine operating with the usual bullshit sound-bites.

No one expects KP to launch into a rebellious machete wielding carve up of the establishment - but the odd subtle hint or reference to possible changes or alterations
that would ehance the side would have been more than welcome.

His spiel indicates his contentment with the set-up as it is!
Can that be good for cricket here ... or just good for the fat f**ks on central contracts?
Perhaps a suggestive word here and there to get those hangers-on worried for their
positions and visa applications ... I see him as being mischievous enough to do
something like that - not just the boring old sh!te ..."We're happy, we're positive, we can beat the Australians ....

Disappointing mate , that's all ... disappointing!
Aggression devoid of reality ... in other words, who's he kidding?

Yeah, but come off it mate. He's been in the job all of one week. He needs the support of the dressing room wholeheartedly before he can start making waves. We were just the victors of the Test, I expect he's a good enough bloke to let 'the lads' enjoy it. There's plenty of time, privately, to get his point across in terms of team selection. First of all, he's got the ODI series. He has given no indication either way, alls he's said is that if we played like that, we'd beat Australia. There's no reference to any individual. All-in-all, a sensible approach.

Fair do's.
I'll patiently await the India touring party annoucement - but I won't hold my breath!

What do England have to do to regain the Ashes:

1) Get rid of Moores, and find a Coach with a bit about him who wont take substandard weak ass performances, and who can provide a viable formula and coachings set-up to get the players playing to the best and not the wishy-washy inconsitent balless carp we have seen since PeterSussex took over!

2) Send the team a little bit of a shake-up. Take some relatively untried players to India and the Windies, and get rid of Bell and Strauss from the squads for the winter.

3) Get rid of this pally pally closed cosy shop mentality that they seem to have. This will at least make players aware of the fact that they do not deserve to be there, they have to earn the right to be there!

Re: Merlot & Chateau D'Aniel

The key question is: Does he (and do Moores and co.) believe the overpositives, or not?

Putting a bullishly optimistic gloss on the matter is standard practice now. Although, after Vaughan's overdoing it, that itself may grate with more realistic supporters.

A different matter is if they begin to believe their own propaganda. And act accordingly - either with swagger or feverishness (wetting the gunpowder and the pants, so to speak), but above all, with self-delusion.

Mussolini's propaganda machine had been broadcasting for a year that the glorious Italian army could walk all over puny France. The Italian army promptly marched in, in June 1940, as confidently ordered from on high - and promptly got battered back, with heavy casualties in the field.

We have to hope for no Benito Pietersen. ... or Benito Moores for that matter.

holcs wrote:What do England have to do to regain the Ashes:

1) Get rid of Moores, and find a Coach with a bit about him who wont take substandard weak ass performances, and who can provide a viable formula and coachings set-up to get the players playing to the best and not the wishy-washy inconsitent balless carp we have seen since PeterSussex took over!

2) Send the team a little bit of a shake-up. Take some relatively untried players to India and the Windies, and get rid of Bell and Strauss from the squads for the winter.

3) Get rid of this pally pally closed cosy shop mentality that they seem to have. This will at least make players aware of the fact that they do not deserve to be there, they have to earn the right to be there!

4) And make the Minor Counties supporters happy as Larry, and PDQ!

PeterCS wrote:

holcs wrote:What do England have to do to regain the Ashes:

1) Get rid of Moores, and find a Coach with a bit about him who wont take substandard weak ass performances, and who can provide a viable formula and coachings set-up to get the players playing to the best and not the wishy-washy inconsitent balless carp we have seen since PeterSussex took over!

2) Send the team a little bit of a shake-up. Take some relatively untried players to India and the Windies, and get rid of Bell and Strauss from the squads for the winter.

3) Get rid of this pally pally closed cosy shop mentality that they seem to have. This will at least make players aware of the fact that they do not deserve to be there, they have to earn the right to be there!

4) And make the Minor Counties supporters happy as Larry, and PDQ!

Nothing to do with the Minors mate!

Just send a little shake up is all. It won't hurt, plus it gives th guys in the wings a decent chance to prove one way or the other that they are worthy of inclusion!