Dhoni v Pietersen

Purely on captaincy. Who is/stands the better chance of being better?

Both seem quite similar on the surface in they have the respect of team mates and seem to be able to motivate their team. For me Dhoni has a better cricketing brain. By far.

Dhoni proved in the last series that he can 'bend' the rules if necessary. KP probably is more likely to play with them.

KP is more proven in the test arena. Dhoni's batting outside of Asia is unproven, KP is proven against all types of bowling in different conditions. Dhoni needs some good performances with the bat to bolster his relatively ordinary keeping. Personal performances can be a factor in impinging upon the captain's overall performance.

Dhoni's big advantage might be that it's harder for opposition teams to win in India than in England. He also has the weight of the BCCI behind him.

Purely on captaincy, Red.

If there were a debate on batsmanship between the two it would be utterly pointless considering the vast gulf in class between them.

As captains, neither have proven anything to me yet. A good start for Dhoni, but good tools as well. A good start for KP, but likewise he has decent players at his disposal.

As a larger than life personality, KP will always shine brightly. Whether he can get others to shine around him over a prolonged period of time, I don't know.

Augustus wrote:Purely on captaincy, Red.

If there were a debate on batsmanship between the two it would be utterly pointless considering the vast gulf in class between them.

As captains, neither have proven anything to me yet. A good start for Dhoni, but good tools as well. A good start for KP, but likewise he has decent players at his disposal.

As a larger than life personality, KP will always shine brightly. Whether he can get others to shine around him over a prolonged period of time, I don't know.

They're both charismatic personalities. As I mentioned, I think that Dhoni's home ground advantage will work in his favour, regardless of his captaincy skills. India can prepare pitches to blunt the opposition if they get ahead in a series but I haven't noticed England doing this, and most teams find Indian conditions difficult.

Neither have been long enough in the job. Both are prone to giving it away as batsmen...

Augustus wrote:Purely on captaincy, Red.

If there were a debate on batsmanship between the two it would be utterly pointless considering the vast gulf in class between them.

As captains, neither have proven anything to me yet. A good start for Dhoni, but good tools as well. A good start for KP, but likewise he has decent players at his disposal.

As a larger than life personality, KP will always shine brightly. Whether he can get others to shine around him over a prolonged period of time, I don't know.

Both have excellent starts to their captaincy stints but I think Dhoni has already proven a little bit.


T20 World Cup
ODI Series in Aus
ODI series in SL
Test Series against Aus

JKLever wrote:Neither have been long enough in the job. Both are prone to giving it away as batsmen...

This is a cricket forum JKL, please only give knee-jerk reactions. Thank you.

Dhoni seems to have the got something out of players that were in the side before him as well as younger players that have come in after him.
It would be interesting to see if and how the likes of Collingwood, Flintoff and Strauss... the senior players before Pietersen was made captain can up their game

Well, Flintoff's batting ability mysteriously returned as soon as Pietersen took over - and backed him to bat five (six in Tests).

Dhoni's keeping deteriortes when he is captain.

As far as I can tell, Dhoni, as well as having a good cricketing brain, is not a qunt, nor an egocentric prima donna in the fashion of his counterpart (beyond what is expected from an Indian Cricketing God.) This factor may come into play in terms of maintaining the team and "dressing room" on song in times of the inevitable strife.

Much too early to make a judgement.

Even though its way too early to tell, at this point of time it has to be Dhoni. Perhaps Ind-Eng series will tell us something more concrete.

Relative to who exactly is Dhoni's keeping ordinary?

Anyways, Dhoni's been brilliant so far. KP hasn't had too many games.

Red wrote:Dhoni proved in the last series that he can 'bend' the rules if necessary. KP probably is more likely to play with them.

KP is more proven in the test arena. Dhoni's batting outside of Asia is unproven, KP is proven against all types of bowling in different conditions. Dhoni needs some good performances with the bat to bolster his relatively ordinary keeping. Personal performances can be a factor in impinging upon the captain's overall performance.

Dhoni's big advantage might be that it's harder for opposition teams to win in India than in England. He also has the weight of the BCCI behind him.

KP batting inside Asia, is nothing special

doremi wrote:Relative to who exactly is Dhoni's keeping ordinary?

Anyways, Dhoni's been brilliant so far. KP hasn't had too many games.

Relative to himself when he isn't captain.

KP has captained 1 test and Dhoni 2?

philcric wrote:

Augustus wrote:Purely on captaincy, Red.

If there were a debate on batsmanship between the two it would be utterly pointless considering the vast gulf in class between them.

As captains, neither have proven anything to me yet. A good start for Dhoni, but good tools as well. A good start for KP, but likewise he has decent players at his disposal.

As a larger than life personality, KP will always shine brightly. Whether he can get others to shine around him over a prolonged period of time, I don't know.

Both have excellent starts to their captaincy stints but I think Dhoni has already proven a little bit.


T20 World Cup
ODI Series in Aus
ODI series in SL
Test Series against Aus

And Chennai also reached IPL final under Dhoni.

Today Shane Warne raised some good points in his column.

Actually he talks about some wonderful aspects of captaincy.

Ian Chappell was the biggest influence on my cricketing career and I learnt a lot about captaincy, tactics and the game off him.

Border taught me what it meant to play for Australia and showed me what toughness was. He was brilliant and he never gave up.

Captaincy is about getting the best out of your players and understanding what makes them tick -- when to give them a rocket and when to throw an arm around them and make them feel important.

This comes from understanding your player and which strategy to use. Mark Taylor was an expert at this and was the best captain I played under. He was a great tactician, too.

As a captain, it's not always easy to come to the right decision and get it right all the time, but it's about having a plan and being ahead of the game.

You have to work out what bowlers work best together or who to start with after a break.

This is all done on feel and the state of the game.

You also have to assess when to defend and have a holding period and when to attack.

If you're unsure, it's always better to attack, as Ricky does when he bats - he is the best counter-attacker in the game.

If you have a sniff of victory or blood, that's when the foot goes to the throat and you give it to the opposition.

There is no escape for them when it's 11 against two batsmen and the fielders swarm around like flies.

Does anyone think Dhoni has all those qualities? I think he has all these.

How about Pietersen?

Red wrote:Dhoni proved in the last series that he can 'bend' the rules if necessary. KP probably is more likely to play with them.

KP is more proven in the test arena. Dhoni's batting outside of Asia is unproven, KP is proven against all types of bowling in different conditions. Dhoni needs some good performances with the bat to bolster his relatively ordinary keeping. Personal performances can be a factor in impinging upon the captain's overall performance.

Dhoni's big advantage might be that it's harder for opposition teams to win in India than in England. He also has the weight of the BCCI behind him.

Sounds a bit like you're smarting. Dhoni tops the batting rankings in ODIs and you've forgotten that this series is being played in Asia. Besides, he has a 100% success rate even if it is only after 3 tests. Its hard for me to say this but I have to give Dhoni the edge over KP as he has proven his capabilities as a tactician and seems to grow in stature by the match.
Could you elaborate on this:
"Dhoni proved in the last series that he can 'bend' the rules if necessary"

Although I'm hoping you are right, seen objectively I don't think you are.

For all the mincing on this topic, i'll say it again..... far too early to say

I agree it's too early to tell because KP hasn't been in the job that long. But if i had to say someone, it would be Dhoni mainly because he's done it longer and has had a lot of success even outside of Asia (in ODIs).

its not much of a comparison. dhoni has been captain for well over a year. kp for 1 test and 4-5 odis. need to wait for a year more at the very least to assess fairly

As somebody pointed out earlier KP has a prima donnaness about him which Dhoni doesn't. There have also been some accusations about KP's selfishness particularly during the last ahses.

I could never imagine KP taking a rest from a test series