George W Bush Tribute Thread

[Hass]

Considering we are entering the final 24 hours of his presidency I thought it would be worth having a thread to say farewell (or 'good riddance' if you prefer).

He leaves office with an approval rating of 34%. That puts him level with Carter and above only Truman and Nixon since polling started in the 1930s.

I've previously said that I think history will be kinder to George Bush than his contemporaries. I still believe that to be true.

At one time he had an approval rating of 90%. These wildly divergent poll figures say less about the man and more about the time in which he presided.

George Bush's outlook changed dramatically on the 11th of September 2001. America hadn't experienced an attack like that on its soil since Pearl Harbour and hadn't experienced such a destructive act on its mainland since the Civil War.

On that day he vowed to do everything in his power to make sure that an attack like that didn't happen again.

That vow led him down some dark alleys, but it's a vow he kept.

A lot depends on how events play out, but when the dust settles I believe he will be remembered as the man who led the fight against Islamic terrorism. He made mistakes along the way and resorted to some questionable practices in the pursuit of his aim, but he had the courage of his convictions at all times.

Obviously that's all hard to swallow if you are vehemently opposed to the Iraq War. I understand how Bush's presidency can only be a negative in that case.

The nature of the times allowed the man in charge to be anything from a great president to an utter failure. I don't subscribe to either of those extremes. I think he was a good president in difficult times; deeply flawed but right when it counted.

I expect this tempered and limited praise to be fiercely opposed by many forummers and I don't begrudge anyone a rant against George W Bush. But as the man himself once put it, I think he's been "misunderestimated".

[Big_Bad_Bob]

He was a president with an innate inability to coherently put his thoughts into words, but was still nevertheless able to lead the only true modern superpower into perhaps the most dangerous and divisive war in the history of the world.

In doing so he proved himself able to make war, but appeared to have no clue on how to make peace, and even if he had I doubt whether he'd have been able to convey it to those that mattered.

What was clear was that he took the world into this conflict with no idea what the real aims were, nor what the exit strategy should be or how it would be arrived at.

A sorry chapter in the history of the USA and the world, finally and thankfully put behind us all.

[Guest]

The worst President they ever had.

- business links with the House of Saud
- lied and lied and lied about the Iraq War
- inspired a generation of Islamic terrorists
- inaction as New Orleans drowned
- Enron
- the biggest budget deficit in US history

I'm struggling to think of a single good thing that he did.

[embee]

The worst President they ever had.

- business links with the House of Saud
- lied and lied and lied about the Iraq War
- inspired a generation of Islamic terrorists
- inaction as New Orleans drowned
- Enron
- the biggest budget deficit in US history

I'm struggling to think of a single good thing that he did.

Some of those are George W Bush's "faults" and some are the "faults" of the President of the USA

[The One]

i think its early to pronounce judgement on his most contentious move - taking the fight againt islamic fascism to its heartland. iraq was obviously justified by reasons which were later known not to be true. but taking a larger view it may well turn out to be one of history's lucky blunders. if iraq somehow manages to turn itself into a modern democracy in the middle of an ocean of medieval kingdoms/theocracies it may well turn out to be a catalyst for real change in the middle east

of course too much world attention is given to the middle east. in the end its a minor and relatively unimportant part of the world. what bush has achieved with regards to closer ties with asia will be his larger legacy. 50 years from now we may well regards the rise of islamic terrorism as a small irritant in human history, but the rise of asia and developing nations in other continents will be the story of the 21st century. aid to africa has more than trebled under bush. no terrorist attack at home since 9/11, a total overhaul of homeland security. i am sure there are a few bills passed that were helpful to the local population

he has quite a few things going against him as well - which are fairly well-documented. but overall i think he was better than the absolute hate he seems to generate amongst a sizeable number of people. 10 years from now may be a better time to truly judge bush

[PlanetPakistan]

By far the World's biggest terrorist.

We can only hope and pray that his blunders don't cause something absolutely horrific like world war 3.

[JKLever]

By far the World's biggest terrorist.

Frankly, Bullshit.

[PlanetPakistan]

By far the World's biggest terrorist.

Frankly, Bullshit.

Lever,
I have a few friends who FOUGHT in this war and even they curse the hell out of Bush for what is going on in that part of the world. They almost feel ashamed for fighting the war.

Killing well OVER A MILLION PEOPLE on the back of falsehood isn't terrorism to you?

[Big_Bad_Bob]

Were the terrorists wielding the same power as Bush, half of the western world would have been destroyed by now.

Ridiculous assertion, PP.

I clearly remember on September 11th 2001 fearing for all our futures, and that the world might never be the same again within months.

It probably isn't, but the response as a result of those attacks could have been far more cataclysmic than was actually the case.

[DJ_Smerk]

George W Bush is just a bit thick. His cabinet are the real evil ones.

[JKLever]

Were the terrorists wielding the same power as Bush, half of the western world would have been destroyed by now.

Ridiculous assertion, PP.

I clearly remember on September 11th 2001 fearing for all our futures, and that the world might never be the same again within months.

It probably isn't, but the response as a result of those attacks could have been far more cataclysmic than was actually the case.

Exactly, the US response to 9/11 could have been far more severe than it was.

This million dead, i'd love to see a statistic on how many were killed by planes sent by GW himself and how many have been killed by idiots looking go meet their 72 virgins in inter-tribal conflict.

none of this makes Bush a saint, of course. If Bush were a terrorist most of the middle east wouldn't exist.

[PlanetPakistan]

Were the terrorists wielding the same power as Bush, half of the western world would have been destroyed by now.

Ridiculous assertion, PP.

I clearly remember on September 11th 2001 fearing for all our futures, and that the world might never be the same again within months.

It probably isn't, but the response as a result of those attacks could have been far more cataclysmic than was actually the case.

Please think about this for a second.

How can you can link the Sept 11 attacks with the war in Iraq?
How has killing over a million Iraqis made the life better for us in the west?

[PlanetPakistan]

Were the terrorists wielding the same power as Bush, half of the western world would have been destroyed by now.

Ridiculous assertion, PP.

I clearly remember on September 11th 2001 fearing for all our futures, and that the world might never be the same again within months.

It probably isn't, but the response as a result of those attacks could have been far more cataclysmic than was actually the case.

Exactly, the US response to 9/11 could have been far more severe than it was.

This million dead, i'd love to see a statistic on how many were killed by planes sent by GW himself and how many have been killed by idiots looking go meet their 72 virgins in inter-tribal conflict.

none of this makes Bush a saint, of course. If Bush were a terrorist most of the middle east wouldn't exist.

oh...lets shove every thing under the carpet by bringing up the 72 virgin myth again

[Guest]

I clearly remember on September 11th 2001 fearing for all our futures, and that the world might never be the same again within months.

I clearly remember thinking "Now Bush has license to do something totally psychotic". And he did.

[Big_Bad_Bob]

Please think about this for a second.

How can you can link the Sept 11 attacks with the war in Iraq?
How has killing over a million Iraqis made the life better for us in the west?

Because quite simply they were linked.

They might have been linked in error, but the latter and the war in Afghanistan would not have happened were it not for the former.

As JKL says, probably a majority of those Iraqi deaths are as a result of in-fighting between Iraqis, or at least a wider muslim 'brotherhood'.

Whether the end justifies the means or not, however, and to me it's a very hard call, nobody can possibly pretend that the world is not a better place for seeing the end of Saddam and his obscene and callous abuse of power.

[JKLever]

oh...lets shove every thing under the carpet by bringing up the 72 virgin myth again

I'd hoped i'd bait you into that response because it's just the same as 'Bush has killed a million' rhetoric.

Whenever a bomb goes off in Baghdad killing another 100 people they're added to the amount Bush has killed.

[PlanetPakistan]

See this is the thing that tick me off

The lives of people in certain countries is considered more important than the rest or at least this is the IMPRESSION that i get

An innocent life lost is an innocent life lost doesn't matter if it is in Washington DC,NY Gaza, London, Kigali, Karachi, Bombay OR Baghdad.

[Batman]

By far the World's biggest terrorist.

We can only hope and pray that his blunders don't cause something absolutely horrific like world war 3.

Predictable response.

[Big_Bad_Bob]

See this is the thing that tick me off

The lives of people in certain countries is considered more important than the rest or at least this is the IMPRESSION that i get

An innocent life lost is an innocent life lost doesn't matter if it is in Washington DC,NY Gaza, London, Kigali, Karachi, Bombay OR Baghdad.

Not at all, every life is precious.

However, the majority deaths in Iraq now are as a result of Islamic terrorists who hate the west, hate freedom and are hell bent on destroying democracy and peace in that country.

Their cause is furthered and their motivation redoubled by idiots around the world who continue to solely blame those deaths on Bush and the west in general.

[Henry]

As much as I hate George W Bush, I feel that Donald Rumsfeld (in particular) and Dick Cheney were bigger villains.

Bush showed a ridiculous amount of loyalty in Rumsfeld, who must surely go down as the worst Secretary of Defence ever. A despicable, arrogant, reckless, and rude man who should have been sacked at least 2 years before he was allowed to "resign".

[Big_Bad_Bob]

Aye - you do feel that Bush was swept along by far greater and more sinister minds than his own to some extent.

[Hass]

Please think about this for a second.

How can you can link the Sept 11 attacks with the war in Iraq?
How has killing over a million Iraqis made the life better for us in the west?

George Bush made it clear in his second inaugural address:

"The survival of liberty in our land increasingly depends on the success of liberty in other lands. The best hope for peace in our world is the expansion of freedom in all the world."

That's the theory. Before September 11 the US felt things were under control. After September 11 the US felt allowing Saddam Hussein to stay in power was too big a risk. The Harmony documents seized from Iraq post-invasion show that Saddam was willing to support "Islamist Arab elements" in their fight against America. He wasn't involved in September 11 but in the 1990's he'd "ordered his intelligence service to establish relations with terrorist groups around the world and to develop the expertise to carry out assignments". Many of these groups went on to form Al Qaeda.

This dictator had not accounted for the Weapons of Mass Destruction he once had. Suddenly a containable threat appeared much more dangerous.

How many of these "over a million Iraqis" were killed by people acting on orders from George W Bush and how many were killed by their fellow citizens? Leaving aside the fact Iraq death toll estimates vary wildly from 100-thousand to over a million, how can you assess the situation without considering how many people were being killed under Saddam Hussein's brutal regime?

[Guest]

oh...lets shove every thing under the carpet by bringing up the 72 virgin myth again

I'd hoped i'd bait you into that response because it's just the same as 'Bush has killed a million' rhetoric.

Whenever a bomb goes off in Baghdad killing another 100 people they're added to the amount Bush has killed.

JKL, I think that PP is refering to The Lancet's total enhanced mortality in Iraq rather than to international figures.

[Guest]

Leaving aside the fact Iraq death toll estimates vary wildly from 100-thousand to over a million, how can you assess the situation without considering how many people were being killed under Saddam Hussein's brutal regime?

It is hard to assess, but I bet life in Iraq was safer under a brutal dictator who kept the generators running and the water supplies clean, and upheld the rule of law, than it was under the US occupation, where the water and power went out and civil war erupted.

[Forum Goat]

of course too much world attention is given to the middle east. in the end its a minor and relatively unimportant part of the world.

strange statement. I don't know if you meant just Israel and Palestine as middle east. If not, I totally disagree with the statement. Oil drives everything - from Wall street to our everyday life, and from America's point of view, we want to see a pro-American middle east, at least for a few more decades until oil can be efficiently replaced with alternate source of energy.

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