Self righteous characters have generally been

All Hallow's Eve . . . October 31.

Dello wrote:When is Halloween anyway?

Come on Dello don't act like you don't know, i'm sure you will be out for a litlle trick or treat.

Putting Bush in the same list as Hitler and Stalin is daft.

Populist ignorance is the correct phrase I think. He's no more of a mass murderer than many other US presidents and other leaders around the world.

LLL, if you look at the wording it talks about misery not about deaths or murders .
That is why I included Bush in there. The amount of misery caused in Iraq due to displacements etc. has affected millions in just Iraq.

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:Putting Bush in the same list as Hitler and Stalin is daft.

Populist ignorance is the correct phrase I think. He's no more of a mass murderer than many other US presidents and other leaders around the world.

I think I find myself agreeing with LLL. Nurse! get the screens

Hitler must come in last on that list.Bush should not be on it.
Mohammad,I don't know enough about to comment.
Sadam,Mugabe and just about every chinese leader in the
last 60 years should also be on there.

Noelene

Your answer doesn't make sense ...Hitler is last , but there are two behind him?

I should have put it better.Bush and Mohammad don't belong on the list in my opinion.I believe evil is done in the name of Mohammad,but did he preach that evil be done?

I'd like to nominate whoever invented country and western music.

And I'd like to nominate whoever invented Al-Kahal. The Shuttle-U-Home folks just gave me weird stares.

Mohammad (Kaif). Hallelujah! Josh has seen the light atlast.

doremi wrote:Mohammad (Kaif). Hallelujah! Josh has seen the light atlast.

HA HA

Bush should not be on this list?!

He has wroked so hard to be on that list and now you deny him that right to be on that exclusive list.

we must reward the man for all the hard work he has put in....

noelene wrote:I should have put it better.Bush and Mohammad don't belong on the list in my opinion.I believe evil is done in the name of Mohammad,but did he preach that evil be done?

Josh just put him there because of a girly knee jerk reaction to filosofee's thread, if he was being serious i suggest he go out and do some research.

Wrong Maks, I have nothing against you so don't take it personal but I honestly believe that Mohammad has a lot to answer for. If you want to debate on that without getting upset about it I am ready for it.

Example please? if he does why doesn't Jesus, Moses etc they all preached the same things.

And please don't give links to websites with their 'interpertations' direct quotes from the Quran please.

HH_pink wrote:And I'd like to nominate whoever invented Al-Kahal.

Sound all the same, those things the Arabs came up with...

Himesh Reshammiya would also be a worthy candidate.

I'm guessing communism as espoused by the likes of Stalin, Mao & Polpot has a claimed a similar body count to 2000 years of religious warfare & persecution.

Seriusly doubt it, but they have claimed a fair no. of lives for sure.

No, I am not going to give any links. I have done my research and this is how I see it. When Mohammad originally came up with Islam during his Mecca days he had no more than a handful of people ready to subscribe to his religion. He was mostly subject to ridicule. During these days he passively tried to preach Islam. It basically did not work.

Then he came up with the new carrot and stick strategy during the Medina period. He decided that preaching alone will not get people to listen to him. So he promised riches to people if they followed him. This was the carrot and thus started the sequence of robbing caravans. The booty was shared and the siezed people were forecully converted, this continued for a while and then the ante stepped up. There were invasions and the carrot at the end of it was the enslaving of the captured men and the booty of their riches and their women. Passages were included to justify this including the branding of "Kafirs" and the corporal punishments that they would incur. Also passages were included to deter people from leaving Islam once they were in. So began the control for people and their minds and the saga continues today on the back of the continuous precedence that exists right through the Islamic history as a justification. Thus what might have began as a peaceful religion was transformed into what we see today.

On your comparison to Jesus, Bible etc. yes there have been various attrocities committed in the name of other religions as well. However what the difference is that the vast majority of so even called christians do not see the Bible as the ultimate word and in the Western Christian world they have separated state from the religion. To me that is the difference.

Again nothing personal against you or Islam to me all organised religions are evil. I believe in being spritual to a set of human values and am OK with religion as long as it is personal and not imposed upon others.

Must say it is difficult to compare people who lived centuries ago whose philosophies have been abused by zealots, people who inflicted suffering purely for their own enrichment, people who started defensively and then became aggressors, and people who may have set out to (in their own minds) do good and then became evil.

Ironically those who start off as purely self-serving bastards often inflict the least harm because others hate them enough to overthrow them sooner.

But that muslim nations choose not to seperate nation from religion can hardly be Mohammmad's fault.

doremi wrote:But that muslim nations choose not to seperate nation from religion can hardly be Mohammmad's fault.

The fact the Quran is drilled as the ultimate unquestionable word makes everything else secondary including governments.

If Muslims took the stand that the Quran is questionable and can evolve with time then things will be different.