Ever completely changed your mind about a player?

A follow-on from the recent discussions about Ian Bell really. Has anyone ever changed their mind about a player (from the team you support or otherwise) who you thought at one point was a total waste of space, and wondered how much they were paying the selectors to keep picking them, but then they turned it round and became a star performer, or at least a decent well-respected member of the team?

I'm struggling to think of any obvious examples from cricket. Particularly with England, most of those we all thought were muppets proved us right and the selectors eventually saw the error of their ways, even if after several years of undeserved recalls!

Hashim Amla

That's a good call.

I'm struggling to think of one for England.

gautam gambhir

I never thought Collingwood would make the grade. Admired his grit and attitude, but didn't think it would be enough in the long term.

Andrew Strauss. Didn't look a test player for any money....

As a county player he looked pretty ordinary for a good few years, but then something clicked with him and he became a run machine. Turned up in England's ODI side and looked perfectly at home in international cricket.

I was always pretty confident Strauss would go all right - didn't think he'd score a hundred (should have been two hundreds - Nasser!) on debut, mind...

Dello wrote:I never thought Collingwood would make the grade. Admired his grit and attitude, but didn't think it would be enough in the long term.

Yes, that's a fair comment I think.

Another one in the early days who I wondered whether he would make it is Alec Stewart, who seemed to be in the side because his Dad was coach to begin with.

These seem more of the "not sure he's quite good enough" than the "get this ****ing idiot out of our team" category though... although I know a few were quite strongly anti-Collingwood, probably still are when he hits a run of poor form!

Darren Pattinson. Oh wait........

beamer wrote:"get this ****ing idiot out of our team"

If BBB was here, Matty Prior would get his vote.

beamer wrote:These seem more of the "not sure he's quite good enough" than the "get this ****ing idiot out of our team" category though... although I know a few were quite strongly anti-Collingwood, probably still are when he hits a run of poor form!

Yep, hands up!

Dello wrote:

beamer wrote:"get this ****ing idiot out of our team"

If BBB was here, Matty Prior would get his vote.

Yeah, wonder if he's had a major change of opinion? Prior's keeping has definitely improved beyond all recognition, which some said would never happen, although you still wonder whether it's going to be at the expense of his batting and his career will go the same way as that of Geraint Jones.

Prior doesn't do the backs against the wall stuff very well, but he's handy if you want someone to bully a side when you're 400/4.

Basil wrote:Prior doesn't do the backs against the wall stuff very well, but he's handy if you want someone to bully a side when you're 400/4.

To an extent, that seems true.

But the last game only adds to the confusion as he top-scored with 70-odd in the first innings collapse, before folding like a cheap suit during the second innings collapse.

I think his problem is he's too loose and one-dimensional. He wants to get his bully on all the time, when sometimes you have to graft a little to earn the right.

Thought Yuvraj would be at least as good as ganguly in tests initially. Thought Gambhir would end up being another FTB after an uninspiring career start. Both turned it around the head. Yuvi for the worst and Gambir for the best.....

Andrew Flintoff.

He looked so hopelessly out of his depth in his debut series, cumbersome as a batsman and didn't think his medium pace dobbers would ever threaten quality batsmen. Was opposed to him being selected for the 1999 World Cup ahead of the likes of Craig White and Matthew Fleming.

It took about 3 years for me to see a Test Match player inside him - that tour of India when he had shed the pounds and was suddenly an aggressive fast bowler. The confidence gained from his bowling allowed his batting to blossom. Had no idea he would become the talisman that he eventually did.

Oh yeah, I was always hopeful of his potential in the early days but remember the moment when I thought it was time to forget about him. When he got a pair against India in 2002, after being our last hope of saving a particular Test, I have to admit I thought he was just the latest in a long line of English all-rounders who couldn't contribute anything meaningful with bat or ball and it was time to move on... wasn't long after that when he really started to make an impact on Test cricket.

Dello wrote:

Basil wrote:Prior doesn't do the backs against the wall stuff very well, but he's handy if you want someone to bully a side when you're 400/4.

To an extent, that seems true.

But the last game only adds to the confusion as he top-scored with 70-odd in the first innings collapse, before folding like a cheap suit during the second innings collapse.

I think his problem is he's too loose and one-dimensional. He wants to get his bully on all the time, when sometimes you have to graft a little to earn the right.

Well, at Headingley first dig he was the reason we got as many as we did, as all around him fell apart.

Geraint Jones suffered from everyone constantly telling him how shit he was, and funnily enough his confidence took a hit.

beamer wrote:Oh yeah, I was always hopeful of his potential in the early days but remember the moment when I thought it was time to forget about him. When he got a pair against India in 2002, after being our last hope of saving a particular Test, I have to admit I thought he was just the latest in a long line of English all-rounders who couldn't contribute anything meaningful with bat or ball and it was time to move on... wasn't long after that when he really started to make an impact on Test cricket.

By 2002 I was sure of his quality - that match at Headingley was the result of the selectors picking him with an injury.

But the fat lad who played in 1998 against South Africa was a million miles away from a Test cricketer.

Shoeshine wrote:Geraint Jones suffered from everyone constantly telling him how shit he was, and funnily enough his confidence took a hit.

Not sure about that - his keeping improved massively, then he was dropped as he had forgotten how to bat.

beamer wrote:

Shoeshine wrote:Geraint Jones suffered from everyone constantly telling him how shit he was, and funnily enough his confidence took a hit.

Not sure about that - his keeping improved massively, then he was dropped as he had forgotten how to bat.

That's my point really, he was under absolute non-stop pressure for one thing or the other. He's spoken since about how it affected him. Maybe you can make the argument that being prone to that is part of the reason for not making it, but I think the media had got it badly in for whoever filled that role at that time.

Gus Fraser. In 1989 I thought he was just another seamer, then he turned into the core of the bowling.

Rob I wrote:Gus Fraser. In 1989 I thought he was just another seamer, then he turned into the core of the bowling.

Everyone picked in 1989 was "just another" something or other, with the amount of players they picked it was inevitable that one or two of them would turn out to be half decent!

Shane Watson.

So over-hyped and under-seen since about 1983 that some non-Oz folk probably wondereed if he existed outside the media's imagination. Always injured. Clumsy, leaden-footed, technique so ugly you wondered sometimes if his shoes were on the right feet and he was holding the bat the right way up. By all accvounts a complete clot. Typical 75% a Test batsman and 75% a test bowler, whoch of course adds up to 75% of a Test cricketer. Not bad at the one-day caper, eventually, but WGAF. Two years ago his State captain retired so he could have a shot at opening the batting at first-class level. (God knows what behind-the-scenes arm-twisting brought that about). In his first four innings were three ducks and a scvore in the teens. Still always injured. Still a goose. Because we 'had' to have an all-rounder (apparently it's the Law) he still got gigs to India (despite no numbers whatsoever) and England foir Ashes 09. Because he was the only candidate for the spot within a thousand miles (nice one Aunt Hilda) he fell into Phil Hughes's opening spot by default.

I think most of us know the rest. Mind you, he's still a prize dickhead.....
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