Re: Football World Cup 2010 Thread (II)

by JKLever Sun 27 Jun 2010, 22:48

The One wrote:
beamer wrote:We need to centrally contract our England players like we do in cricket, however many million a year it costs, and tell the clubs when and where they can play them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/2010/06/germans_rich_pedigree_casts_la.html

Excellent article TO, on how the Prem and its big clubs basically hijacked football here.

by The One Sun 27 Jun 2010, 22:57

although i dont agree its taken english football 'backwards' (going by their performances even before the premiership), i dont think the premiership is really helping the national team either. maybe a few parallels with the county system in cricket

by Zat Sun 27 Jun 2010, 23:35

JGK wrote:I just put $200 on England. Accidently as it turns out.

And on little slips like this, fates are sealed...

by doremi Sun 27 Jun 2010, 23:39

He didn't need to waste 200 on that result really...

by Zat Sun 27 Jun 2010, 23:55

JKLever wrote:
Henry wrote:We are one of the richest football nations in the world, with arguably the best domestic league in the world. We should be so much better.

The middle part of that sentence is wrong. Should read as 'most entertaining'

Fat lot of good it does your national team having a great domestic league chock full of players from overseas.

by JKLever Mon 28 Jun 2010, 00:34

Well that was my point. Maybe too subtle...

by Paul Keating Mon 28 Jun 2010, 00:42

So another quarter final between Germany and Argentina. Will the Argies go out on penalties like they did to ze Germans in Berlin four years ago?

Back then, I think Argentina were the overwhelming favourites on form and paper. Yet somehow lost.

Again I think in this game, Argentina will be the strong favourites. But I think they will get up this time. Although I will be supporting the Germans. I think it will be Diego's destiny.

by LeFromage Mon 28 Jun 2010, 01:00

(just c & p-ing my post from part one of the WC2010 thread to save writing it again - and to revel in my sagery)

England haven't played any watchable football since '98 under Hoddle - and that came to nothing (and a messy spaz-related divorce).

The fact is, their current "form" is just a continuation of the last World Cup under Sven. They were awful in every game, but the consensus was always "they'll improve - these players are too good not to get it together". Pretty sure people were still saying it as England boarded the plane home, having not improved one iota.

They then failed to even qualify for Euro 2008. "These players are too good not to be playing in major finals."

And, although they've actually made it to this World Cup, they hardly played well in order to qualify - merely bumbled and stumbled their way through, same as it was under Sven - they've been mostly shite against any decent side (losing to Brazil, Spain and even France in friendlies) and have limped into this tournament with a run of about seven absolutely dire performances (including the first two games), one of which was against a pub side or something...

They haven't progressed as a team in the slightest. They're a crap team with crap players who are crap when it matters. Makes no difference who the manager is.

Not that Capello seems to have much of a clue. Packing his side with slow, immobile, experienced, "solid" unspectacular players, stuffed into a rigid 4-4-2 system might well work in Italy, where they have some technical ability that can compensate for a lack of pace by being able to make the ball do the running and strikers who are selected for their ability to score goals rather than their knack of making others look comparatively good by your sh!tting presence, but it's useless setting England up to play patient, possession football.

Because they're crap.

It's over for England. Football. It's done.

The under 21s got thrashed 4-zip by their German counterparts (some of whom have since graduated to their seniors, including Ozil, Boateng, Neuer, Castro and Khedira), in the Euro finals last summer - and they were as outclassed then as the "big boys" were today by a team who had this weird idea that football was a game of skill, technique, vision and invention.

Of course, this being England, everyone was patting themselves on the back at the "success" of reaching the under 21 Euros final - talk of a new "golden generation" - but not mentioning the fact that they were basically Greece 2004: a load of skill-less chancers uglifying the beautiful game with their shite, fluky, shite, fluky progress.

Couldn't string two passes together. In the warm up.

Of the XI who played in the final, only James Milner made the cut for the World Cup squad. Basically, he was pretty much the only player who hasn't gone backwards in their development in the last year.

gk: Loach (Watford. Appalling)
rb: Cranie. (who? surely not the former Saints shitmuncher...)
lb: Gibbs (might be a player in the future. If he's not broken.)
cb: Micah Richards (talent waster)
cb: Onuoha (can't get in the Man City team, and in any case has pledged his international future to Nigeria.)
rm: Milner (supremely average footballer, but "hard working" and "honest" so that basically makes him a superstar in England.
lm: Adam Johnson (like a slightly less sh!t Stewart Downing. Who dives a lot.)
dm: Muamba (yes, the Bolton donkey.)
cm: Cattermole (yes, the Sunderland donkey.)
cm: Noble (West Ham square passer and all-round ordinarysmith.)
st: Walcott (little Theo up front on his own, to fight for aimless long punts from the technique-phobes behind him? Can't imagine why that didn't work out...)

What a shower of shite. That's the future? Good times, indeed.

Personally, I'm kind of looking forward to it: f*ck off the "golden generation" of total bottlers, bring on the next wave of worse players and settle back into in a world where all this bollocks spoken of "having a chance" of winning major tournaments can been downgraded to merely being satisfied at putting on a good, plucky showing whilst just missing out on qualifying for the finals.

We should know our place. It's with the shitmunchers.

by Paul Keating Mon 28 Jun 2010, 01:12

It's worth visiting the forum just for Dello's rant.

by LeFromage Mon 28 Jun 2010, 01:19

doremi wrote:Like Italy, England desperately need talented new players.

Feel sorry for Gerrard though, as always. Plays for a crap club as well, deserves better.

Perhaps there's a common link to Gerrard's club being crap and Gerrard's country being crap?

I find it incredible how indulged this self-important glory hunter is.

How can a guy of 30 - supposedly one of the world's best players - still not have locked down a position? Because he's a proven tactical liability in all of the midfield places (where his attributes should be best suited) as he has no positional discipline whatsoever.

So now, these days, he gets talked up as a second striker. His "best position". What a joke. He only ended up there because Benitez tried him everywhere else and, no matter how he configured the midfield, it was always compromised by Stevie Me's presence. So he shoved him up front and relieved him of such responsibilities as tackling and tracking back and holding the defensive shape - you know, the stuff that's beneath him.

In his "best position" pretty much on a full time basis now for the last two seasons. Liverpool's total trophy haul: 0. And knocked out of the CL in the group stages. And didn't even qualify this time around.

What a f*cking massive c*nt of an overrated c*nt of a player.

Should have been another Roy Keane - a dominant central midfielder in defence and a driving powerhouse going forward.

But instead he's just a c*nt who has to be "accommodated" in all of his teams. If he was more skillful, you'd call him a luxury player. But he's not even that.

by LeFromage Mon 28 Jun 2010, 01:28

beamer wrote:Players not to play for England again: James (due to age more than anything), Terry, Upson, Barry, A.Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Heskey, Wright-Phillips.

Whoever's in charge needs to speak to Rooney and see if he's up for captaining a new young team to build over 4 years. If not, discard him as well. Make sure it's players who really want to play for England in that side.

Cole a pretty good left back. Hung out to dry by having to play the entire left side of the pitch all on his own as Captain Positional went missing somewhere in the middle as usual. Got another WC in him, I reckon.

Age-wise, you'd think James, Lampard, Heskey won't be part of the 2014 campaign. Ability-wise, you'd hope Upson, Barry and Wright-Phillips aren't.

Terry never had any pace anyway, so could well be one of those centre backs who plays on for years without his game noticeably deteriorating.

by LeFromage Mon 28 Jun 2010, 01:34

beamer wrote:
taipan wrote:
DJ_Smerk wrote:Awesome German performance though.
Why where England sweating on Barry being fit?

Garbage. End of.
He's not fully fit, same as Rooney, that's why they've been crap. In Rooney's case it's totally Man Utd's fault, playing him when clearly unfit in a desperate attempt to win something other than the Worthless Cup last season.

Barry is no kind of player however fit he was or wasn't. It's astonishing that Capello earmarked a player with seemingly no suitable attributes to be his one and only holding/ball-winning midfielder.

Doesn't tackle. Doesn't track runners. Can't run. Perhaps he's in for his passing... nope, that can't be it. Superior ball skills? Nope. Heading?

There's a reason why a succession of England managers haven't picked Barry over the years.

Rooney's supposedly lack of fitness is just a straw-clutching excuse. Being slightly unfit doesn't rob you of your basic ball skills. His touch was terrible all tournament.

Choked, big time.

by Ash Mon 28 Jun 2010, 01:36

gerrards a good player. you cant blame him for liverpool being cack.

basically, the only decent players in the england team are ashley cole, gerrard, rooney and joe cole. in fact joe is easily the most skillful english player and didnt get a start. the rest are either FTBs (lampard, terry, milner) or just sh!t (heskey, barry, glen johnson, upson). technically they are so far behind the rest of the world its embarassing.

but andy gray, shearer, townsend and co will continue to champion the "physical attributes" of the PL. long balls, crunching tackles and running around like headless chickens - thats the english game. all under the guise of "passion, spirit and commitment". no wonder the really top players prefer la liga and serie A, even now during the PL's dominance in europe and italies struggles. except when they fancy a big fat final payday of course.

the bbc 'pundits' bemusement at the end of the match was as predictable as it was funny: "how can such good players consistently underachieve for england?!"

maybe they arent as good as were made to believe...?

by Ash Mon 28 Jun 2010, 01:43

so likely QF:

uruguay v ghana
germany v argentina
holland v brazil
paraguay v spain

SF prediction:

uruguay v argentina
holland v spain

by LeFromage Mon 28 Jun 2010, 01:43

Henry wrote:Our passing and first touches are woeful. I mean really bad. For the last 10 years, the strategy has been to just wildly kick the ball forward and hope for the best.

I don't think an England player controlled the ball in one touch over the entire tournament. It was bizarre - I know they were bad, but this was like they were trying to set a new low benchmark in badness.

The number of times a simple ball was passed along the floor to an England player whose first touch somehow managed to pop the ball up to waist height, leading to either a panicked, volleyed hoof or a desperate attempt to try and trap a now-awkward ball within three touches, was just unreal.

No other side in the World Cup have displayed such a consistent failure of rudimentary technique. Not even the "minnows".

by JKLever Mon 28 Jun 2010, 01:44

Exactly.

Glen Johnson, Emile Heskey, James Milner, Gareth Barry, Matthew Upson.

If anyone should have wondered why England were so sh!t, it's right there. Players of that calibre play for Wales FFS.

by JKLever Mon 28 Jun 2010, 01:47

Dello wrote:

No other side in the World Cup have displayed such a consistent failure of rudimentary technique. Not even the "minnows".

The only pundit who even remotely seems to be on the ball is Chris Waddle, who constantly criticises our technique from youth levels up. The rest of the media will criticize for 'not getting stuck in' enough.

I knew we were technically sh!t, and that Capello was handed a duff card before he even became manager but I was pretty dissapointed in our tactical play to be honest. Having a crap first touch does not excuse bad positioning or leaving yourself so open with so long to go.

by Ash Mon 28 Jun 2010, 01:49

yep, no excuses on that front. youd expect an italian to get the tactics right at least.

by LeFromage Mon 28 Jun 2010, 01:56

Ash wrote: technically they are so far behind the rest of the world its embarassing.

but andy gray, shearer, townsend and co will continue to champion the "physical attributes" of the PL. long balls, crunching tackles and running around like headless chickens - thats the english game. all under the guise of "passion, spirit and commitment". no wonder the really top players prefer la liga and serie A, even now during the PL's dominance in europe and italies struggles. except when they fancy a big fat final payday of course.

the bbc 'pundits' bemusement at the end of the match was as predictable as it was funny: "how can such good players consistently underachieve for england?!"

maybe they arent as good as were made to believe...?

They say it after every failure: "These are top-class players. There must be another reason why they were so incompetent."

Every time.

As for England not producing technical players, the Academies system, which the FA insists every club at the top level must sign up to, has been a total failure. Whether it's the standard of coaching or the strict rules the FA imposes on catchment areas, preventing the best set-ups from signing the best talents if they don't happen to live in the right place, or a combination of factors, it's been garbage.

Liverpool, for example, haven't brought through a single player since Gerrard over a decade ago. A decade! And their Academy is supposed to be one of the best.

Man United's famous Beckham-era youth team is nothing but a faded memory now. Who was the last player they brought through? Was it this century?

Of course, rather than be self-critical of their entire set-up, the FA will probably trot out some bullshit about bluddy foreigners. That plays well with certain types.

by LeFromage Mon 28 Jun 2010, 02:02

JKLever wrote:Exactly.

Glen Johnson, Emile Heskey, James Milner, Gareth Barry, Matthew Upson.

If anyone should have wondered why England were so sh!t, it's right there. Players of that calibre play for Wales FFS.

I kind of like Johnson. He's curious. A cult. It's like he's constantly stoned - just that fraction of a second behind everyone else in working out what's going on and reacting to it.

Seems to only have one pace. A sort of a quickish but languid trot. Whether walking, jogging, sprinting, standing still, it's all at the exact same speed.

I think he might be mentally disabled.

by JKLever Mon 28 Jun 2010, 02:06

Gareth Barry was painful to watch really. He was so slow it was like watching gramps chase around in a kiddies game.

by PeterCS Mon 28 Jun 2010, 02:09

Most English supporters like exciting kick and rush, not "fancy play". There is am impatience with ball control, etc.

I didn't see the match, so can't comment on that. I expected Germany to win (though not by so much), because of their habitual work ethic and remorseless drive, even when their players are not much cop, whereas (in previous matches at least) the English stars seem by and large too much as I described further up.

I'm not saying they haven't individually made efforts this tournament - that's not the point. Most just don't seem to have much basic ball control, or even footballing intelligence (with perhaps two exceptions, and one of them was off the pace all tournament). Too self-absorbed, too much self-glory, too much self-pity.

by PeterCS Mon 28 Jun 2010, 02:10

Perhaps Cameron and Clegg should impose a 50% pay cut and cap on all Premier League salaries, and let the exodus begin. ... start back at the roots? Very Happy

by LeFromage Mon 28 Jun 2010, 02:11

JKLever wrote:
Dello wrote:

No other side in the World Cup have displayed such a consistent failure of rudimentary technique. Not even the "minnows".

The only pundit who even remotely seems to be on the ball is Chris Waddle, who constantly criticises our technique from youth levels up. The rest of the media will criticize for 'not getting stuck in' enough.

I knew we were technically sh!t, and that Capello was handed a duff card before he even became manager but I was pretty dissapointed in our tactical play to be honest. Having a crap first touch does not excuse bad positioning or leaving yourself so open with so long to go.

There's always some numpty fan on the news after England crash out of any tournament who'll air his well-reasoned opinion that "we needed more passion".

You can set your watch by it.

We needed more basic ball skills.

Capello looked utterly clueless, but it's hard to argue that any tactical bumjiggery he might've pulled out of his arse would have made any difference to a team of players who can't complete a five yard pass to the unmarked guy standing next to them.

by LeFromage Mon 28 Jun 2010, 02:13

JKLever wrote:Gareth Barry was painful to watch really. He was so slow it was like watching gramps chase around in a kiddies game.

Rafa Benitez wanted to cash in on Xabi Alonso in the hope of replacing him with Barry.

True story.

Mental.

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