Re: The Football Thread - 10/11

[LeFromage]

Bent over with a wagon wheel in his mouth.

Darren or Marcus?

[G.Wood]

WW will be pleased. This time, he does it with his foot.

No wonder WW is so popular with Rita the Rooter. A billy with all his teeth and 12 inches. Must be some catch

[JKLever]

Didn't watch the game tonight but it sounds like a side with Jordan Henderson, Jay Bothroyd & Andy Carroll in it went as expected...

[LeFromage]

No, it went as expected because it's England.

Those three weren't stand-outs in the incompetence stakes by a long shot.

The goalkeeper was rubbish, the defence statue-esque, the midfield utterly bereft, the forwards starved of any service that wasn't a 60 yard punt from the centre backs.

Just the usual skill-free, abject footballing abortion that is England.

[JKLever]

Cheers, same old then.

[LeFromage]

It was pretty embarrassing actually. The French - who let's not forget, left the World Cup in disgrace, a shambles of a side on and off the pitch - gave them an absolute fisting in the basic art of ball-control, passing and team-work.

While they appear to have somewhat learned from their short-comings and addressed them, we're still ploughing on with Plan 1970s in the unreasonable hope that it's not us that are playing football the wrong way, it's everyone else.

[JKLever]

Sigh.... I tuned into 'you're on sky sports' looking for the cricket tonight. Was endless cockney morons phoning up saying ' if we ad Wengggaa we'd be world champions '

Double Sigh.

This is what its like to be Wales isn't it?

[Henry]

It's funny how in hindsight, Sven was something of a genius to get this mob of overpaid and over-rated no-hopers to play some sort of structured football from 2000-2006.

[Lara Lara Laughs]

Sven was wank. Journeyman manager who does OK with every team he manages. Couldnt be more average. Genius and Sven should never ever be in the same sentence.

[Guest]

Sven was wank. Journeyman manager who does OK with every team he manages. Couldnt be more average. Genius and Sven should never ever be in the same sentence.

Sven has a much better record with England than Fabio. I believe we only ever lost 2 games in normal time at major tournaments with Sven and only by one goal each time, once to Brazil who went on to win the tournament and one to France. Only ever lost one in the group stage.

Fabio on the other hand lost 4-1 in the 2nd round to a team who didn't even make the final and are a team we consider to be one our biggest rivals. The same country Sven beat 5-1 in their own back yard where they had never lost a game. You may say that the team England faced in 2010 were a better team than the one Sven faced in 2001, but lets not forget that Germany made the final in 2002, something they couldn't repeat in 2010.

Of course, Fabio is leagues ahead with regards to club management but their international record speaks for itself.

[Henry]

Time for Hiddink, methinks.

Capello wont honestly take us to the next world cup, will he? I'd be surprised if he even takes us to Euro 2012.

He'll resign in the next 6 months.

[Henry]

The thing is, it's not solely Capello's fault. It's primarily the players. They're just not good enough. The greatest manager in history will never take this England squad to a world cup final.

[Lara Lara Laughs]

Sven was wank. Journeyman manager who does OK with every team he manages. Couldnt be more average. Genius and Sven should never ever be in the same sentence.

Sven has a much better record with England than Fabio. I believe we only ever lost 2 games in normal time at major tournaments with Sven and only by one goal each time, once to Brazil who went on to win the tournament and one to France. Only ever lost one in the group stage.

Fabio on the other hand lost 4-1 in the 2nd round to a team who didn't even make the final and are a team we considhttp://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/antihistaminessystemic202060.htmler to be one our biggest rivals. The same country Sven beat 5-1 in their own back yard where they had never lost a game. You may say that the team England faced in 2010 were a better team than the one Sven faced in 2001, but lets not forget that Germany made the final in 2002, something they couldn't repeat in 2010.

Of course, Fabio is leagues ahead with regards to club management but their international record speaks for itself.

You can't compare teams, games, tournaments and rivals that are a good half decade apart. Beating a dreadful, old, Germany side 5-1 9 years ago and losing 4-1 to a completely different and much better team this year is a pointless comparison. Sven has made a sh!t load of money from being average. We beat some sh!t teams to qualify for tournaments and lost every time we came up against anyone half decent - eg- any team that could pass the ball. I know who I'd rather have as manager.

Jose Mourinho's our only real hope and I'm not sure even he could teach England how to retain possession.

[Guest]

Sven was wank. Journeyman manager who does OK with every team he manages. Couldnt be more average. Genius and Sven should never ever be in the same sentence.

Sven has a much better record with England than Fabio. I believe we only ever lost 2 games in normal time at major tournaments with Sven and only by one goal each time, once to Brazil who went on to win the tournament and one to France. Only ever lost one in the group stage.

Fabio on the other hand lost 4-1 in the 2nd round to a team who didn't even make the final and are a team we considhttp://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/antihistaminessystemic202060.htmler to be one our biggest rivals. The same country Sven beat 5-1 in their own back yard where they had never lost a game. You may say that the team England faced in 2010 were a better team than the one Sven faced in 2001, but lets not forget that Germany made the final in 2002, something they couldn't repeat in 2010.

Of course, Fabio is leagues ahead with regards to club management but their international record speaks for itself.

You can't compare teams, games, tournaments and rivals that are a good half decade apart. Beating a dreadful, old, Germany side 5-1 9 years ago and losing 4-1 to a completely different and much better team this year is a pointless comparison. Sven has made a sh!t load of money from being average. We beat some sh!t teams to qualify for tournaments and lost every time we came up against anyone half decent - ergo - any team that could pass the ball. I know who I'd rather have as manager.

Jose Mourinho's our only real hope and I'm not sure even he could teach England how to retain possession.

The team we lost to in 2010 couldn't even make the final. The team we lost to in 2002 went on to win the world cup, and we only lost by 1 goal.

And that "dreadful, old, Germany side" made the world cup final in 2002.

[Henry]

At least under Sven we beat the moderate to sh!t teams. We're hard pressed to even do that now. How many goals did we score combined against the USA, Slovenia, and Algeria in the group stages of the world cup? Three??

[Guest]

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying Sven was brilliant, but he did a damn sight better than anyone since.

[Lara Lara Laughs]

Sven was wank. Journeyman manager who does OK with every team he manages. Couldnt be more average. Genius and Sven should never ever be in the same sentence.

Sven has a much better record with England than Fabio. I believe we only ever lost 2 games in normal time at major tournaments with Sven and only by one goal each time, once to Brazil who went on to win the tournament and one to France. Only ever lost one in the group stage.

Fabio on the other hand lost 4-1 in the 2nd round to a team who didn't even make the final and are a team we considhttp://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/antihistaminessystemic202060.htmler to be one our biggest rivals. The same country Sven beat 5-1 in their own back yard where they had never lost a game. You may say that the team England faced in 2010 were a better team than the one Sven faced in 2001, but lets not forget that Germany made the final in 2002, something they couldn't repeat in 2010.

Of course, Fabio is leagues ahead with regards to club management but their international record speaks for itself.

You can't compare teams, games, tournaments and rivals that are a good half decade apart. Beating a dreadful, old, Germany side 5-1 9 years ago and losing 4-1 to a completely different and much better team this year is a pointless comparison. Sven has made a sh!t load of money from being average. We beat some sh!t teams to qualify for tournaments and lost every time we came up against anyone half decent - ergo - any team that could pass the ball. I know who I'd rather have as manager.

Jose Mourinho's our only real hope and I'm not sure even he could teach England how to retain possession.

The team we lost to in 2010 couldn't even make the final. The team we lost to in 2002 went on to win the world cup, and we only lost by 1 goal.

And that "dreadful, old, Germany side" made the world cup final in 2002.

What you're saying makes no sense though. Like I said, different teams, different managers, different tournaments etc etc. The comparison is a fallacy.

And that "dreadful, old, Germany side" we beat 5-1 did not make the world cup final at all. Germany completely gutted their team out (especially their defence) after that loss. I think there was perhaps 3 players in the 5-1 win who played in the world cup final.

[Henry]

Well, under Sven we beat the Argies in 2002, and were well on our way against Brazil until Seaman knocked himself out and lost his bearings against Ronaldinho's free kick.

Capello just doesn't suit the English game. It's like applying leather boot polish to a dunlop volley. Hiddink or Redknapp needed, imo.

[Guest]

Sven was wank. Journeyman manager who does OK with every team he manages. Couldnt be more average. Genius and Sven should never ever be in the same sentence.

Sven has a much better record with England than Fabio. I believe we only ever lost 2 games in normal time at major tournaments with Sven and only by one goal each time, once to Brazil who went on to win the tournament and one to France. Only ever lost one in the group stage.

Fabio on the other hand lost 4-1 in the 2nd round to a team who didn't even make the final and are a team we considhttp://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/antihistaminessystemic202060.htmler to be one our biggest rivals. The same country Sven beat 5-1 in their own back yard where they had never lost a game. You may say that the team England faced in 2010 were a better team than the one Sven faced in 2001, but lets not forget that Germany made the final in 2002, something they couldn't repeat in 2010.

Of course, Fabio is leagues ahead with regards to club management but their international record speaks for itself.

You can't compare teams, games, tournaments and rivals that are a good half decade apart. Beating a dreadful, old, Germany side 5-1 9 years ago and losing 4-1 to a completely different and much better team this year is a pointless comparison. Sven has made a sh!t load of money from being average. We beat some sh!t teams to qualify for tournaments and lost every time we came up against anyone half decent - ergo - any team that could pass the ball. I know who I'd rather have as manager.

Jose Mourinho's our only real hope and I'm not sure even he could teach England how to retain possession.

The team we lost to in 2010 couldn't even make the final. The team we lost to in 2002 went on to win the world cup, and we only lost by 1 goal.

And that "dreadful, old, Germany side" made the world cup final in 2002.

What you're saying makes no sense though. Like I said, different teams, different managers, different tournaments etc etc. The comparison is a fallacy.

And that "dreadful, old, Germany side" we beat 5-1 did not make the world cup final at all. Germany completely gutted their team out (especially their defence) after that loss. I think there was perhaps 3 players in the 5-1 win who played in the world cup final.

Whatever way you look at it, Cappello has been sh!t*, whereas under Sven we had some amazing wins and decent runs at finals tournaments. Despite our press billing us as "one of the favourites" every year we never really were and 3 quarter final appearances is a decent enough return, not great which I never claimed it was but again, damn sight better than Cappello has done or has shown any signs of doing.

I'll never forget the 5-1 win in Germany, the last gasp draw against Greece (I know on the whole we were rubbish that day but it's still an amazing moment that came under Sven's reign) and the 1-0 over Argentina.

The best win under Cappello has been an away win in Croatia, a team who didn't even qualify from our group.

[beamer]

Author of the second mail on here - could it be?

http://www.football365.com/mailbox/story/0,17033,8744_6513684,00.html

[spangler]

No... He sounds too upbeat...

[Lara Lara Laughs]

Sven was wank. Journeyman manager who does OK with every team he manages. Couldnt be more average. Genius and Sven should never ever be in the same sentence.

Sven has a much better record with England than Fabio. I believe we only ever lost 2 games in normal time at major tournaments with Sven and only by one goal each time, once to Brazil who went on to win the tournament and one to France. Only ever lost one in the group stage.

Fabio on the other hand lost 4-1 in the 2nd round to a team who didn't even make the final and are a team we considhttp://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/antihistaminessystemic202060.htmler to be one our biggest rivals. The same country Sven beat 5-1 in their own back yard where they had never lost a game. You may say that the team England faced in 2010 were a better team than the one Sven faced in 2001, but lets not forget that Germany made the final in 2002, something they couldn't repeat in 2010.

Of course, Fabio is leagues ahead with regards to club management but their international record speaks for itself.

You can't compare teams, games, tournaments and rivals that are a good half decade apart. Beating a dreadful, old, Germany side 5-1 9 years ago and losing 4-1 to a completely different and much better team this year is a pointless comparison. Sven has made a sh!t load of money from being average. We beat some sh!t teams to qualify for tournaments and lost every time we came up against anyone half decent - ergo - any team that could pass the ball. I know who I'd rather have as manager.

Jose Mourinho's our only real hope and I'm not sure even he could teach England how to retain possession.

The team we lost to in 2010 couldn't even make the final. The team we lost to in 2002 went on to win the world cup, and we only lost by 1 goal.

And that "dreadful, old, Germany side" made the world cup final in 2002.

What you're saying makes no sense though. Like I said, different teams, different managers, different tournaments etc etc. The comparison is a fallacy.

And that "dreadful, old, Germany side" we beat 5-1 did not make the world cup final at all. Germany completely gutted their team out (especially their defence) after that loss. I think there was perhaps 3 players in the 5-1 win who played in the world cup final.

Whatever way you look at it, Cappello has been sh!t*, whereas under Sven we had some amazing wins and decent runs at finals tournaments. Despite our press billing us as "one of the favourites" every year we never really were and 3 quarter final appearances is a decent enough return, not great which I never claimed it was but again, damn sight better than Cappello has done or has shown any signs of doing.

I'll never forget the 5-1 win in Germany, the last gasp draw against Greece (I know on the whole we were rubbish that day but it's still an amazing moment that came under Sven's reign) and the 1-0 over Argentina.

The best win under Cappello has been an away win in Croatia, a team who didn't even qualify from our group.

Not really. With Sven, we qualified for tournaments and got beaten as soon as we met a good team. With Capello, we qualified for a tournament and got beaten as soon as we met a good team. Much of a muchness. Except that Capello is a much better manager. 

Which games were the "amazing wins" under Sven? The three you name, calling them "amazing wins" is a bit of a stretch. 

Germany were at the end of a cycle and were a very poor team. In fact, that win set English football back in many ways. The hype came from the fact that it was "Germany". No-one took the time to see the German side was full of geriatric or mediocre footballers. Yes, big win and they don't happen often but please... Owen had pace, the German defence didn't. The fact that Emile Heskey scored a goal tells you all you need to know.

Greece was Greece. A draw with Greece is as far from an "amazing win" as you can get. Partly because it wasn't a win. Or amazing. Were it not for Beckham, we'd have lost. Becks apart, we were workmanlike. Embarrassingly so.

And Argentina had some good players but a sh!t team. They were awful in that world cup. They scraped a draw against Sweden minutes from time, scraped a win against Nigeria and lost to England. The only thing making it an amazing win is the history and Beckham's redemption, a narrative constructed by the media which had little relevance to the fact that Argentina were bunk throughout their short stay in the tournament.

If those are amazing wins then so is Capello's win 5-1 against Croatia, in my opinion a much better team than Germany in 2001. And England beating Germany 2-1 in Berlin for the first time in 483849 years a couple of years ago. Again, a better team than Germany 2001.

In my mind, there is no comparison between Sven and Capello. It's the natural reaction of any fan to lionise previous managers when the current one isn't doing well, but it doesn't make the assertion in any way true.

Sven - money hungry mercenary. Limited, unimaginative manager. His one great success in premier competition came at Lazio, a club that smothered him with transfer funds in a manner that had not been seen before and has rarely been seen since. Has not won anything in football for 10 years. If Sven's a genius then I'm a pair of soft folding pumps.

Capello - genuinely world class manager who has won everything there is to win at club level and had struggled (by his standards) at international level. Most people can see that England's problems are so deep rooted - technically, tactically and mentally that it would take a miracle for any manager to make England a success, world class or not.

[JKLever]

Most people can see that England's problems are so deep rooted - technically, tactically and mentally

Sounds like Super Frank

[Lara Lara Laughs]

No.

[Guest]

I think we will have to agree to disagree. I can't see a 5-1 win against a team who didn't even qualify for the world cup measure up against a 5-1 to world cup finalists.

And ANY win against Argentina is an amazing win, given our history.

You may claim there is no comparison between the two managers, and at club level I would have to agree, but going solely on their records, Sven was the better manager of England. We were never humiliated at a major tournament under Sven.

Again, I'm not lionising Sven, I have never said he was a great manager because I don't think he is or ever was, but he did do better Cappello, that fact cannot be argued against.

In 2 years time I hope this has changed, but the way things are going I can't see it happening.

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